What's the deal with processors?

[Pizzasgood]

What's the difference between all those processors (Pentium III/IV/M, Celeron, AMD, etc.)? Which ones have more bang for the buck? Which processor should I look for in my future college laptop?

Keep in mind, I'm going for the 1.2-1.6 GHz range (I think), probably with 512MB RAM. This won't be dedicated to Puppy, so bare minimum isn't going to cut it.

Also, I've heard I should avoid Dell like the plague. Any truth to that?

[MU]

Pentium3 was available up to 1 Ghz I think.
Pentium4 is the current model with more Ghz.

Celeron is a Pentium without floating point unit (FPU).
The FPU is needed basically for 3D-calculations, for example CAD-programs for architects or Raytracers like PovRay.
But it is not needed for games, as they calculate their grafics inside the graficscard.
So Celeron is a "cheap" Pentium for standard Games/Desktop-PCs.

The "M"-processors have a reduced need in Power, so your akku works longer (4 hours instead of 1.30) in a notebook.
But that is expensive, so M -Notebooks often have lower Ghz.

All those were done by Intel, whereas AMD is another company.
Usually AMD-chips are cheaper than intel-chips of similar quality, but I can't tell you details about the different AMD-chips.

Besides the CPU, other factors are important.
I like Shadows around windows, that requires DRI-Hardware-accelleratio (2D).
My Desktop-PC (Pentium 3 700 Mhz) with an old ATI-graficscard works much faster than my Notebook, 2200Mhz Celeron with a SIS 650 Graficschip without DRI.
At least with standard-applications.
Compiling might be faster on the celeron, I did not compare that yet.

As manufacturers tend to add low-quality graficscards in Notebooks,one really should have a close look at that.
Also pay attention: often Notebook-graficscards use "shared memory".
They don't have their ownmemory, but take it from the (slow) RAM.
So 512 MB RAM -64 MB shared memory for the graficscard means you just have 448 MB RAM left for applications.

Conclusion:
look for a notebook with a good graficscard.
Then decide:
If you will often use it outside, buy a "M"-processor for long Akku-power.
If you just use it inside use a "real" Pentium (or AMD) for best performance. That would be the case, if you just buy a notebook so that you can easily take it from one place to another (Parents in holidays, University for "work" and home for surfing).


Also keep in mind, Repair of a notebook is extremely expensive, and can cost 200 $ even for small things (and you often can not repair it yourself, because non-standard components are taken). My Fan shall cost over 100 Euro (Desktop: 1 Euro). It is even no longer available in shops in Hamburg (big city), even not there where I bought it.
So I stay with Desktop-PCs whenever possible.

Mark

[dvw86]

Also, I've heard I should avoid Dell like the plague. Any truth to that?

Well my Dell laptop does alright, but it isn't very linux friendly. I can't get the built in wireless card, Ethernet card, or sound to work in Puppy. Suse has the same troubles with it. Knoppix works with the sound and NIC card but not the wireless. Also, Windows always complains and wants to boot into safe mode after I run off of a Knoppix CD. It's a good laptop, it's just built to run Windows only. Acers are also notorious for not liking linux. Personally I'd look for a IBM Thinkpad.

[MU]

This should be visited I think:
http://tuxmobil.org

[jmarsden]

What's the difference between all those processors (Pentium III/IV/M, Celeron, AMD, etc.)? Which ones have more bang for the buck? Which processor should I look for in my future college laptop?

Keep in mind, I'm going for the 1.2-1.6 GHz range (I think), probably with 512MB RAM. This won't be dedicated to Puppy, so bare minimum isn't going to cut it.

For all the data you can handle (and more, probably) on Intel CPUs, see the Intel Processor Finder. There doesn't seem to be an AMD equivalent. You might also find the Toms Hardware article at http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/21/ ... arts_2005/ worth a read.

HOWEVER: In practice, for a college laptop you are buying new, you probably care a lot more about RAM, optical drive, display, battery life, total weight, and perhaps overall ruggedness, than you should about CPU! Pretty much any new laptop will have plenty of CPU guts for college work.

I have a 15yo son who is in his second year of college (he started college aged 14 -- a very smart young man!). If he needed a laptop (he doesn't), my suggestion would be either (a) something cheap and second-hand, maybe an older IBM Thinkpad, under US$300, so it's not quite so bad if it gets dropped or stolen or otherwise ends its life unexpectedly, or (b) a new low end US$600 or so basic laptop, and add RAM to boost it from 256MB to 512MB RAM, if something he was going to use it for really needed current technology.

Final words: Please think carefully about how you will regularly back up the data from that laptop. Preferably every day. Losing a major college essay or project when your HD fails or your notebook is stolen is not a happy experience!

Jonathan

[Pizzasgood]

Thanks. I had seen people in love with Celerons and people who loathed them. Now I know why. Those were some interesting links. I looked through bits of each. From what I understand of one chart, either a high-end AMD-Athalon/P-III or a low-end AMD-Sempron/P-IV is in the range I'm looking at.

HOWEVER: In practice, for a college laptop you are buying new, you probably care a lot more about RAM, optical drive, display, battery life, total weight, and perhaps overall ruggedness, than you should about CPU!

Yes, but I don't know diddly about CPUs, so that's why I asked about them. As for weight, if it's under 15lb, I'm fine with it.

Battery life, eh? Good thing Puppy is easy on power from what I hear. I'm probably going to get XP (shudder) to fill the gaps, but I'll be sticking to the Pupster as much as possible.

Hmm... I went and checked out HP just to see what prices are like, and it turns out they've dropped a good bit since the last time I "built" a laptop to check them. Or maybe I just missed something.

Either way, I came up with this

Operating System Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home Edition with SP2
Processor AMD Sempron(TM) 3300+ (2.0GHz/128KB L2 Cache)
Display 15.4" WXGA BrightView Widescreen (1280x800)
Graphics Card 128MB ATI RADEON(R) XPRESS 200M w/Hypermemory(TM)
Memory 512MB DDR SDRAM (2x256MB)
Hard Drive 40 GB 4200 RPM Hard Drive
Primary CD/DVD Drive FREE Upgrade DVD+/-RW/R CD-RW Combo w/Double Layer
Networking FREE Upgrade to 54g(TM) 802.11b/g WLAN w/125HSM!!
Primary Battery 12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Productivity Software Microsoft(R) Works/Money

for $908.00 ($858.00 after rebate).

I need to look around and see what other kinds of prices I can get. I oughta be able to do better than that. This is definately reassuring, though, because I've been expecting prices more in the $1,200 range. There's a good chance I will be able to buy myself on for my birthday (or maybe earlier if I run out of will power ). I also need to stop by an actual store so I can get a better feel for the screen sizes.

From what I've heard about expensive repairs, I assume it would be cheaper to extend the warranty?

Hmm... once I get ahold of that laptop, I can throw in a PSX emulator and finally have a "portable" Playstation. I'll be able to play Final Fantasy Tactics anywhere! Muhahahahahaahaaa.... Someday, though, when I have money, I'm going to build a REAL portable Playstation. Hey, if this guy can do it, then so can I!

[Redmond]

Pizzasgood, welcome to the world of the enlightened, we have been expecting you, Bill

<Operating System Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home Edition with SP2>

[Macho]

Pizzasgood
Is Bill right, if so, shame on you young man, where is the moral fibre, and to think that some of your previous posts were so venomous against XP.

A little bit off subject (well probably not).

Are you, or any your fellow students supporting Cindy Sheehan in her quest.

Morally or otherwise.

[Mathiasdm]

Well, seems to be a lot of information on Intel processors
Don't forget to take a good look at the AMD processors as well! Like someone said, you might get more bang for the buck.

My laptop, for example, has an AMD Turion 64-bit inside.
Another laptop with similar specs (buth with a Pentium M), was priced quite a lot higher.
The only reason I can think of, is that the Pentium M consumes slightly less power, thus letting your battery survive a bit longer

Anyways, I probably sound like a fanboy I'm just happy with my comp, this AMD processor is serving it well.
So... just look around well before you buy

[Pizzasgood]

Okay,
A. It didn't give me a choice. It was Cheap XP, Media XP, or Expensive XP.
B. I'll probably need it anyway for college, but maybe not.
C. I am going to put at least 98SE on it (which I can do for free) if I don't get XP so I can still play some of my games that don't work in Wine. Like I said, I'll try to stick with the Pupster whenever possible.
D. That isn't the machine I'm going to get. I guess I didn't make that clear. It was just a test to see what it would cost for something in the mid-upper end of what I'm looking at.

Actually, AMD is what I'm thinking about going with. I don't think 64-bit is going to be necissary though.

[long tangent about nicknames]
Strange thing, though, is that for quite a while my nickname was Bill. My name bares no resemblance to Bill or William, but a kid in my Civics class said I would be rich like Bill Gates, and the next thing I knew people I'd never known were greeting me as Bill. Rather than taking offense, I took it how they meant as saying I'd be rich.

Now, Bill has finally worn of and I'm known as A-Train. Some other names I've had over the years were "Flash" "Speedy" "Spaghetti Noodle" "Tacano" and "21." The speed-type names were due to my speed walking. Noodle was because I'm skinny. "Tacano" (with the squigly n) is Spanish for "stingy." A foriegn exchange student from Vietnam mis pronounced "stingy" when I got fed up with letting people flip through my Animorph books to see the little animation. It was during Spanish class, so I became "Tacano." 21 was from a fundraiser, and was almost as big as "Bill." I sat next to a kid for nine weeks, and he didn't even know my name. Most people don't Now, there are two people with my name on the bus and another in my Calculus class, so I've developed the habit of not even responding to my name. But if I hear "Bill" or "21" my ears perk up.
[/end tangent]

Are you, or any your fellow students supporting Cindy Sheehan in her quest.

I'm not familiar with the goal of her quest. I heard of it once, and it sounded to me like she was belly aching about soldiers who died doing what soldiers do. Don't want to die, don't be a soldier. Duh. The point of being a soldier is combat, not to stand around looking pretty.
But like I said, I don't know what she's going for, so if I'm mistaken, ignore me. I don't have time for complaining/defending what's already happend. That time would be better spent asleep. All I can say is that whether or not it was worth it, and whether or not it was right, we did it. So now we need to finish it. Otherwise, all the lives that were lost in the process will have been utterly wasted.

Now, I need to catch some Z's. I wonder if they make a net that makes it easier? Oh! They do! It's called a hammock! I should take out my matress and stick my hammock in my bunkbed. If nothing else, just to see the look on my mom's face when she comes into my room

[rarsa]

The real question is: Do you want to buy new or not?

The laptop I use at the office is a Dell Latitude C640 1.7 GHz with 512 RAM. I've had it for four years so I'm sure it will be replaced soon (Any time now). That means that simmilar computers are already in the second hand market (off lease) for a decent price.

Yes, It's a Dell. It runs XP perfectly. It runs Puppy flawlessly, Sound, network, video, etc.

Actually, off lease laptops are usually refurbished before being sold again.

Back to the processor mumbo jumbo: It's been some time since I've felt that processor is an issue, If you get a 1.7 or a 3.0 GHz, you will barelly notice the difference under a student work load. Amount of memory and HDD speed is way more important this days. I would say that 512 MB is in the lower range, specially if you are used - or have the need - to open many applications concurrently.

In my case its clear that application performance depends more on Network and HDD latency than on processor.

If you were doing high volume transaction processing, scientific computing, intense graphic rendering, etc. where user interaction is relatively small compared to the number crunching, then processor speed is important.

[raffy]

I'd do it backwards - look at the requirements of the most demanding game you want to play and comply with that - the fancier the graphics card and the bigger the processor cache (for speed), the better. These two count more than raw processor speed... BTW, Celerons have disabled parts of the cache of a Pentium.

[Macho]

Pizzasgood

<I'm not familiar with the goal of her quest. I heard of it once, and it sounded to me like she was belly aching about soldiers who died doing what soldiers do. >

Yes indeed she was belly aching, for the death of her son Casey Sheehan, killed in action in Iraq, 4 April 2004. He was awarded the Bronze Star Medal, and the Purple Heart for bravery in action. I know Casey was a volunteer, but I think we can forgive Cindy for having an ache in her belly, whether or not we agree with her views.
I thought I'd bring you up to speed.

Perhaps there should be a law to prevent mom's from belly aching.

I take on board the reasons why you are forced to use XP, nobody likes being forced to do something they don't wish to do, I think it's called Democracy.

Will keep in touch, Macho

Oh yes, congrats on Empty Crust, I hear there's not much substance in it.

[Pizzasgood]

Yeah. It's like the sugarless candy bar I tried the other day (didn't want to, but it was the only one there). Tasted like air. Like chocolate air. A dull flavor with no substance at all. I might as well have smelled a Tootsie Roll. Not even worth the effort of unwrapping.

Perhaps there should be a law to prevent mom's from belly aching.

No. But maybe one against lousey candy bars or overly small school lunches...

I'm not against feeling pain for someone who died. My cousin died in Iraq too. But do you see me running around Bush bashing? When he joined the Marines, he knew he'd wind up in Iraq. I don't blame Bush for his death, because Bush didn't make him do it. It was his own descision.

Where this doesn't apply, however, is for people who signed on prior to the war and don't believe it to be correct. Sure, they're willing to give their lives for their country, but for someone elses?

I am not convinced the war was a good idea, but I haven't studied the situation. The reasoning given to the public was definately skewed. I don't really care to get into a discussion about it. But I do believe that it was not fruitless and that the job should be completed rather than being abandoned. Yes, we lost many of our men, but on the flipside, we helped save many Iraqis. Sure, I'd rather have my cousin back than a couple people I don't know, but he choose to spend his life to save some others. I can't complain about that.


But enough of that. This is not the thread for this discussion, if it is to be continued at all. Now, back on subject.

I would say that 512 MB is in the lower range

I remember a day when I would have laughed in your face after hearing that. Now I'm inclined to agree.
Is there any (noticable) performance difference in using two 512MB cards rather than one 1GB card? I know it takes an extra slot, but would I be right in assuming that and price are the only differences?

As for having enough umph for college stuff, I'm really more concerned with enough umph for my stuff. I don't know how much that will be, as I tend to do many different things. I've been getting by fine with my old 450MHz system, so I don't imagine I'll need any more than 2GHz. That's why I'm aiming for around 1.4-1.6. I was really more interested in knowing the differences in processors to get the biggest (useable) bang for my buck than which is more powerful. It looks to me like an AMD would fit that nicely.

So, I'm going to be focusing on ram/graphics-card/processor-cache, probably with an AMD processor if it turns out to be cheaper (so far it looks that way), and ignoring weight. I'm thinking a 40GB harddrive would be sufficient. I'll get a dvd burner, so I can just store what are to me infinite amounts of info on disks if neccissary, and back up lot's of stuff. I'll look for something that's not to flimsy and get a warrenty in case it breaks down. And I'll consider an older system to cut prices.

Sounds like a plan to me

[dewdrop]

Hey Pizza....

It's been awhile since I've been around a college campus so I'm not familiar with current requirements for students.

However, I don't think they have stopped issuing requirements for the various courses that are offered.

And, I would suspect that each college might have different requirements - like you get this machine when you pay your fees...also known as... they decide what you need.

Just another angle to consider.

dewdrop

[Pizzasgood]

Yep. Last time I checked where I'm headed, they wanted XP, 128-256MB ram, and I think a 1.2GH processor. I'm not positive though. I should go see what they say now.

Unless I wind up in a class using some fancy sofware, I think I'll be a bigger power-monger than my classwork will.