I have a rather complicated situation, or at least I am making it complicated.
I want to make a DebianDog frugal installation into a full installation. (same DD system from the same .iso)
Keeping all the changes I made in the frugal installation.
Here's what I think I need to do and if I have got this wrong, maybe someone can help a little please.
Currently I have another frugal installation with the changes.dat(2Gb) and the DEVX.squashfs on a memory stick.
I have created the full installation on hard disk using this mem stick. It required a
complete reformat into ext4 so there is nothing left of the frugal system I had before,
but I have it on the mem stick system
When I boot into the frugal DD memory stick:
What I think happens is:
1) 01-filesystem.squash gets loaded as the basic filesystem
2) DEVX gets overlaid on top of that
3) changes.dat gets overlaid on top of that
which gives me the up-to-date frugal system as I had it before on the hard disk.
This is what I think I have to do:
Make a Remaster Dog (not sure what remaster Cow does) so that I have a 05_remaster.squashfs file which
will be a snapshot of my complete file system, my DEVX and my changes.dat
This means I can mount this .squashfs on the full system and overwrite all of the directories on the hard disk
and I should have my system back where it was when it was frugal.
Do you think that sounds reasonable?
Are there any differences which mean the full installation wont work properly if I do this?
Thanks for you help.
Paul
Frugal to full installation
Frugal to full installation
==================
Running DebianDog Jessie Frugal with /live and maybe with changes or savefile or.., who knows?
Running DebianDog Jessie Frugal with /live and maybe with changes or savefile or.., who knows?
Re: Frugal to full installation
What will you gain by doing this?ocpaul20 wrote:I want to make a DebianDog frugal installation into a full installation.
Why do you want a full install?
Puppy Linux is designed to work best as a frugal install.
Some features only work as a frugal install.
One big feature, the main files of a frugal install are read only, except for the read/write save.
To backup the frugal install.
All that is needed is a backup copy of the good save.
Something goes bad.
Replace the save with the good backup copy.
A full install basically needs to be completely deleted and replaced.
Thus start all over fresh.
Sometimes you can install over a full install to fix it, but it has never completely worked for me.
Why?
Because that does nothing to the programs that where added to the full install. They could be the problem.
other features of frugal install.
More loads into RAM, thus runs faster.
Does not take over all of partition.
Can be installed on any format. (but ext format does allow using save folder)
Can load and unload sfs packages as needed.
Can have multiple Puppy frugal installs on one partition.
Can easily change the kernel, if needed.
You can setup the writes to save only when you choose.
To be honest, full install is not really being kept current, with new changes to how Puppy works.
Any changes to core operation are well tested for frugal installs.
Nobody is really keeping up with making sure full installs have no problems.
Puppy Linux is designed to work best as a frugal install.
Some features only work as a frugal install.
One big feature, the main files of a frugal install are read only, except for the read/write save.
To backup the frugal install.
All that is needed is a backup copy of the good save.
Something goes bad.
Replace the save with the good backup copy.
A full install basically needs to be completely deleted and replaced.
Thus start all over fresh.
Sometimes you can install over a full install to fix it, but it has never completely worked for me.
Why?
Because that does nothing to the programs that where added to the full install. They could be the problem.
other features of frugal install.
More loads into RAM, thus runs faster.
Does not take over all of partition.
Can be installed on any format. (but ext format does allow using save folder)
Can load and unload sfs packages as needed.
Can have multiple Puppy frugal installs on one partition.
Can easily change the kernel, if needed.
You can setup the writes to save only when you choose.
To be honest, full install is not really being kept current, with new changes to how Puppy works.
Any changes to core operation are well tested for frugal installs.
Nobody is really keeping up with making sure full installs have no problems.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
Although ocpaul20 was inquiring about DebianDog frugal rather than a frugal Puppy, the same considerations obtain.
Like Puppies, DebianDogs do not require an entire partition, only a folder. Except on ntfs and fat32 partitions, DebianDogs preserve changes, settings and applications the user installs in a what under Puppies would be called SaveFolder. It is not compressed. On ntfs and fat32 partitions DebianDogs would have to use a dat files: essentially a folder which I think is formatted to a Linux structure. You can't do a 'full install' on an ntfs or fat32 partition.
The only advantage ever reported of Full Installs over Frugal Installs is that with less than 500 mbs of RAM, there's a slight but noticeable improvement in the speed with which applications work. Over 500 Mbs you won't notice any difference except the accumulative effect of such RAM intensive operations as compiling large applications.
Previous posts have pointed out the disadvantages of using a Full install rather than a Frugal. DebianDog is an actual debian operating system, only modified to act-like and provide many of the advantages of a Puppy Frugal operating system. Under ordinary circumstances there would be little reason to try to convert a DebianDog to a full debian system rather than just use the debian system downloaded from a debian repo.
But we are not living under normal circumstances. Many of us are still under 'social distancing' and 'shelter at home': simultaneously suffering from anxiety and cabin fever. So let me tell you about an alternative activity: a variation of the game of solitaire I learned from my room-mate while at Law School.
It's a simple game. You shuffle the deck. Then you turn over the top 4 cards. If the two end cards are the same 'number' -- e.g., King and King-- you discard all 4 cards. If they are the same suit --e.g. Heart and Heart-- you discard the middle two cards and return the end cards to the bottom of the deck. If the end cards don't match at all, all four cards are returned to the bottom of the deck. The object is to discard all cards. You keep playing until you've discarded all cards or discovered that the play is now an endless loop.
The game is played with 2 decks: 104 cards. It takes a couple minutes to shuffle. I don't know the math but it's almost impossible to win. However, if you play the game it will take you over two hours to discover that you've lost.
Much easier to learn than how to properly meditate and comes with the assurance of two hours of mind-numbing, repetitious, simple activity.
My room-mate referred to the game as "Idiot's Solitaire".
Like Puppies, DebianDogs do not require an entire partition, only a folder. Except on ntfs and fat32 partitions, DebianDogs preserve changes, settings and applications the user installs in a what under Puppies would be called SaveFolder. It is not compressed. On ntfs and fat32 partitions DebianDogs would have to use a dat files: essentially a folder which I think is formatted to a Linux structure. You can't do a 'full install' on an ntfs or fat32 partition.
The only advantage ever reported of Full Installs over Frugal Installs is that with less than 500 mbs of RAM, there's a slight but noticeable improvement in the speed with which applications work. Over 500 Mbs you won't notice any difference except the accumulative effect of such RAM intensive operations as compiling large applications.
Previous posts have pointed out the disadvantages of using a Full install rather than a Frugal. DebianDog is an actual debian operating system, only modified to act-like and provide many of the advantages of a Puppy Frugal operating system. Under ordinary circumstances there would be little reason to try to convert a DebianDog to a full debian system rather than just use the debian system downloaded from a debian repo.
But we are not living under normal circumstances. Many of us are still under 'social distancing' and 'shelter at home': simultaneously suffering from anxiety and cabin fever. So let me tell you about an alternative activity: a variation of the game of solitaire I learned from my room-mate while at Law School.
It's a simple game. You shuffle the deck. Then you turn over the top 4 cards. If the two end cards are the same 'number' -- e.g., King and King-- you discard all 4 cards. If they are the same suit --e.g. Heart and Heart-- you discard the middle two cards and return the end cards to the bottom of the deck. If the end cards don't match at all, all four cards are returned to the bottom of the deck. The object is to discard all cards. You keep playing until you've discarded all cards or discovered that the play is now an endless loop.
The game is played with 2 decks: 104 cards. It takes a couple minutes to shuffle. I don't know the math but it's almost impossible to win. However, if you play the game it will take you over two hours to discover that you've lost.
Much easier to learn than how to properly meditate and comes with the assurance of two hours of mind-numbing, repetitious, simple activity.
My room-mate referred to the game as "Idiot's Solitaire".
Thanks for your thoughts.
OK I can see the advantages, but I think maybe I have not really understood the structure of a frugal /live install and what is placed there.
My Debian Dog was reporting that I only had 30Mb left on a few occasions and I assumed that it had something to do with having symbolic links to other drives for storing stuff. THIS is what kept annoying me and finally made me want to go over to a full Debian install or do the DebianDog full install.
For example, my /home directory was on sdb2, and my torrent downloads were filling up space on sdb6 and was filled with very transient files. My Downloads directory was symlinked as well. Anything I want to keep that I download gets placed directly where I want to keep it, the stuff I am not sure about goes in Downloads as a temp storage.
So I am assuming that everything which is changed across ALL the filesystem goes into my live directory system. This was filling up that system with torrents and stuff I didn't want to keep. Changes.dat was 2Gb which should be far more than enough to keep the stuff I want to keep.
So you see, my thoughts on why to have a full system install was - at least I could save what parts of my file system I wanted to save and leave the rest which was transient and temporary.
In my /live directory, I have a saves/changes directory and a /changes directory. I dont understand what is the difference and what goes where in that /live directory.
I am sure there is an explanation of what gets stored where but I just have not found it and read it. Can you guys point me to where this is please? If there is a way to exclude stuff from being saved, I would like to exclude certain areas of my file system (torrents, etc). This area is where I need further education about the Puppy save system.
The post about the dead USB memory sticks: One I managed to recover a small (16G) amount of the original using the helpful advice I got in that post. I am using this for a temporary transfer USB as it must be dodgy. The other is completely trashed and I have thrown it away. It cannot be written to yet fdisk thinks it has written a new partition map.
OK I can see the advantages, but I think maybe I have not really understood the structure of a frugal /live install and what is placed there.
My Debian Dog was reporting that I only had 30Mb left on a few occasions and I assumed that it had something to do with having symbolic links to other drives for storing stuff. THIS is what kept annoying me and finally made me want to go over to a full Debian install or do the DebianDog full install.
For example, my /home directory was on sdb2, and my torrent downloads were filling up space on sdb6 and was filled with very transient files. My Downloads directory was symlinked as well. Anything I want to keep that I download gets placed directly where I want to keep it, the stuff I am not sure about goes in Downloads as a temp storage.
So I am assuming that everything which is changed across ALL the filesystem goes into my live directory system. This was filling up that system with torrents and stuff I didn't want to keep. Changes.dat was 2Gb which should be far more than enough to keep the stuff I want to keep.
So you see, my thoughts on why to have a full system install was - at least I could save what parts of my file system I wanted to save and leave the rest which was transient and temporary.
In my /live directory, I have a saves/changes directory and a /changes directory. I dont understand what is the difference and what goes where in that /live directory.
I am sure there is an explanation of what gets stored where but I just have not found it and read it. Can you guys point me to where this is please? If there is a way to exclude stuff from being saved, I would like to exclude certain areas of my file system (torrents, etc). This area is where I need further education about the Puppy save system.
The post about the dead USB memory sticks: One I managed to recover a small (16G) amount of the original using the helpful advice I got in that post. I am using this for a temporary transfer USB as it must be dodgy. The other is completely trashed and I have thrown it away. It cannot be written to yet fdisk thinks it has written a new partition map.
==================
Running DebianDog Jessie Frugal with /live and maybe with changes or savefile or.., who knows?
Running DebianDog Jessie Frugal with /live and maybe with changes or savefile or.., who knows?
rcrsn51 & fredx181 are the guys to ask but I will provide my input.
I like to see my laptop as responsive as it can be. I do not like to wait.
So I to found that 2GB of change.dat is perfect. I do not do save myself inside the change.dat. ALl my save are on external partitions. I do not use symlink. Just save direct to those partitions.
Now there are a lot of thing that will fill fast the 2GB. Browser cache keeps growing. The "apt update" do use some. I do not think it grows. But Every time you do "apt install" not only your new libs take space but a copy of te original deb is kept on "/var/cache/apt/" in particular "/var/cache/apt/archives". Then all the config + cache so im my case:
/var/cache/apt/
/root/.cache
/root/.config
/root/.local
/root/.moonchild productions
So what I do every moth or so I make a backup externally. Save my palemoon links. Then I remaster. The remaster takes care of purging the temporary files. Plus the libs that where at change.dat where uncompressed. But once the libs move to 01-filesystem.squash they get compress with xy witch is the maximum compression. Then as my new change.dat gets empty I may copy most of original
/root/.config
/root/.local
/root/.moonchild productions
So that may settings survive.
I done this for the last 8 moth or so. And I been surviving. Hope it helps.
I like to see my laptop as responsive as it can be. I do not like to wait.
So I to found that 2GB of change.dat is perfect. I do not do save myself inside the change.dat. ALl my save are on external partitions. I do not use symlink. Just save direct to those partitions.
Now there are a lot of thing that will fill fast the 2GB. Browser cache keeps growing. The "apt update" do use some. I do not think it grows. But Every time you do "apt install" not only your new libs take space but a copy of te original deb is kept on "/var/cache/apt/" in particular "/var/cache/apt/archives". Then all the config + cache so im my case:
/var/cache/apt/
/root/.cache
/root/.config
/root/.local
/root/.moonchild productions
So what I do every moth or so I make a backup externally. Save my palemoon links. Then I remaster. The remaster takes care of purging the temporary files. Plus the libs that where at change.dat where uncompressed. But once the libs move to 01-filesystem.squash they get compress with xy witch is the maximum compression. Then as my new change.dat gets empty I may copy most of original
/root/.config
/root/.local
/root/.moonchild productions
So that may settings survive.
I done this for the last 8 moth or so. And I been surviving. Hope it helps.