I still believe in Global Warming. Do you?

[Dougal]

This is pretty funny. Gotta love how they make themselves look like psychos (which they are...). Not that I think being compared to Kaczynski is necessarily bad...

[Flash]

Does the Heartland Institute think it's wrong to believe anything that Ted believes?

[Sylvander]

In the 1970's...
At an interview for a job in the "Building Services" section [Heating, Ventilation, Air-conditioning] of the Property Services Agency...
I was asked what I thought about "Global Warming".

I replied that I was yet to be convinced.
Even today...I'm still rather skeptical.

e.g. Yesterday on TV...
On "The Antiques Roadshow"...
An expert was explaining about a table made in the late 1700's.
He said that due to climate warming back then ["Global Warming" (NOT man-made?) in the 1700's?], it had become fashionable for ladies in Britain [most likely in the south of England] to wear dresses made of very light material, and this kind of table was developed as a part of that fashion change.

On the other hand...
My son...
Who has a degree in "Physics with Environmental Science"...
Is TOTALLY convinced that Man-Made-Global-Warming is real.

[Terryphi]

Of course I believe that mankind has made a major contribution to global warming. Unfortunately, in a global recession it is likely to be conveniently disregarded.

Without wishing to be provocative I have to say that what really baffles me is why so many people in the world find it easier to believe in a supernatural being than global warming. Over and out. I'm off to enjoy a very secular Sunday.

[sickgut]

the earth has natural warming and freezing events and these will happen no matter what we do, drastic warming and then an iceage event.

and ofcause there have been noticeable warming events not related to human technology at all, as noted in a post previous to this one in this thread. Major cycles of warming and then iceages and then smaller ups and downs in between.

Im not denying that humans may be contributing to the problem, but this issue will happen even with us not here, we just speed it up a few hundred years maybe, and even if we stopped polluting right now, the damage is done. There is no avoiding global warming so i dont understand why everyone is in such a fuss about it.

I believe the only practical way to deal with the situation is to start building the infrastructure that will help us survive it in the future.

And, because of cycles, remember that the sooner it gets hotter, the sooner it will cool down as well. We are speeding it up, thats all.

I see all these efforts to reduce emissions etc, but there doesnt seem to be much of an effort to plant more trees.... when theoretically this would pretty much help improve the problem a good deal. There isnt enough available land do i hear you say? Then we need to reduce our population, dont breed as much and stop putting such a strain on the planet.
You could probably have 1 billion people raping the ocean 24/7 and it would be ok, but not 7 or 8 billion thats stupid. 1 billion people could be using coal and driving their family around in a bus or car or whatever, not 7 or 8 billion.

We need to stop bitching and face the problem, establish a game plan to survive global warming as its here and it wont go away. Even if we did stop polluting immediately and it wasnt too late to stop the immediate effect of warming, the same thing will happen maybe a hundred or two hundred years from now anyway, but this time there wont be anyone to blame and no money to be made from new green tech and fearmongering in the media, people to enslave and starve and no privlaged few that sit there pulling the strings, everyone would probably be affected with no one to lay the blame on, only the solarsystem itself, and we cant have that now can we, we always need to blame and to punish someone.

preventing it is useless, build for the future, plan for these increased temperatures and build new infrastructure around it.

[Sylvander]

we need to reduce our population, dont breed as much and stop putting such a strain on the planet.

Spot on!
You can see it; I can see it...
Why is it that no politicians mention it?

[nooby]

I have not read this thread but I trust that the row about Global Warming
is political. The extreme Right think it is the Left that came up with it
and the extreme Left thing it is the Right that came up with it.

None of these groups seems to be able to be realistic about reality.
They both live inside a political motivated Bubble of seeing it only
from within their agenda. So sad situation.
We need cooperation not bitter strife.

[Lazy JW]

we need to reduce our population, dont breed as much and stop putting such a strain on the planet.

Spot on!
You can see it; I can see it...
Why is it that no politicians mention it?

Never underestimate the power of war, pestilence, and famine....

[Dougal]

the earth has natural warming and freezing events and these will happen no matter what we do, drastic warming and then an iceage event.

I believe it's not just a matter of how soon, but also how drastic it will be. Though the reason people are panicking is obviously because they're afraid of getting their (or their children's) hind singed.

I'm not really concerned by the consequences (humans suffering=good), I am against it for the same reason I don't litter or go around raping women: it's bad manners.

And people seem to have missed the thing that's funny about all this: it's doesn't matter if one believes in global warming or not -- it's how stupid the Heartland Institute people are...

Never underestimate the power of war, pestilence, and famine....

Unfortunately, since the moral superstitions imposed by the same Semitic religion those crazies follow control today's world... the one thing everybody keeps doing is oppose those exact forces (without taking care of their causes).
AIDS could have been pretty good at cutting down the number of humans, but everybody keeps fighting it.
Soylent Green manufacturing could have helped stop de-forestation... but is rejected out of hand.

I actually thought of emailing the developers of the avian bird flu and suggesting they set it free (giving us a bit of a Stephen King inspired utopia), but I suspect they wouldn't have been cooperative...

[sunburnt]

Here`s a real "proof of concept" for a green transportation technology.

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/334 ... avigation/

[sickgut]

we need to reduce our population, dont breed as much and stop putting such a strain on the planet.

Spot on!
You can see it; I can see it...
Why is it that no politicians mention it?

speaking for australia, the last few prime ministers have been pushing to import as many people as possible, offer bonus money to mothers for having babies etc, all in an effort to get a larger tax base, simply so that the prime minister feels like he or she is playing with the big boys, even tho most this continent is unproductive dessert and cant support its current population.

more people means more money for the government to play with, and the government her wants to increase this countries population in any way it can.
Encouraging mothers to breed as much as they can will only result in the hastening of war and or some kind of mass culling of the population as resources get tight. In the times to come, the civilian will probably need to rely on the government to feed and clothe them and offer shelter, and we all know that money with an established govenment travels only one way. They want to tax us, get more money, but when the crunch comes and the elite few want a better life they certainly will not spend money to help the populace relocate their coastal houses or feed the populace in a more direct manner due to grain shortages caused by burning perfectly good crops as a substitute for fuel/ petrol/ gasoline/ diesel.

They will milk us, it will be good for them until its no longer fun, then we will be eliminated.

[Sylvander]

George Carlin tells it like it is.

[RetroTechGuy]

This is pretty funny. Gotta love how they make themselves look like psychos (which they are...). Not that I think being compared to Kaczynski is necessarily bad...

Psychos? You mean Global Warmists? Yeah, they really are.

My experience has been that if you don't "believe" and agree with their religion, they will start making death threats.

After all, we know that is how science is done...

[RetroTechGuy]

In the 1970's...
At an interview for a job in the "Building Services" section [Heating, Ventilation, Air-conditioning] of the Property Services Agency...
I was asked what I thought about "Global Warming".

I replied that I was yet to be convinced.
Even today...I'm still rather skeptical.

If you are not ever skeptical of such claims, I would question your science...

Science is based on continuous questioning and challenging. When you try to criminalize questioning of a topic, you are no longer doing science -- you are doing religion. You should not believe, but instead be convinced by the weight of the data and arguments.

Do people "believe" Einstein's relativity? (largely so) Do people still question it? (yes, they do). Do people make death threats against those who question it? (not that I know of...)

I was once a luke-warmer (fence sitter) -- then I noticed some scientific inconsistencies, and asked questions about them... It was the increasing number death threats that made it clear to me that my questions were in the direction of the truth...

e.g. Yesterday on TV...
On "The Antiques Roadshow"...
An expert was explaining about a table made in the late 1700's.
He said that due to climate warming back then ["Global Warming" (NOT man-made?) in the 1700's?], it had become fashionable for ladies in Britain [most likely in the south of England] to wear dresses made of very light material, and this kind of table was developed as a part of that fashion change.

On the other hand...
My son...
Who has a degree in "Physics with Environmental Science"...
Is TOTALLY convinced that Man-Made-Global-Warming is real.

I too have Physics degrees -- my background is in spectroscopy.

From a spectroscopic standpoint (i.e. "CO2 absorption"), there are some serious issues -- for example, the fact that the energy available to CO2 absorption bands is already depleted, at very low levels of CO2 (explained by Beer's Law).

The warmists would have us believe that if 1-layer of wall will stop a bullet, that 10-layers will suddenly put us at risk from bullets.

The reality, of course, is that each subsequent layer asymptotically (logarithmically) contributes to the energy absorption. By the time we get to "pre-industrial" levels, the energy gain from each incremental increase is quite minimal.

But "global warming" isn't about saving the Earth, protecting humanity or anything so noble. It is about seizing control of the world's energy production, to control and subjugate your fellow humans.

Of course, humans do affect the environment. We clear trees, we build houses, grow fields of food -- all of which change the albedo. We heat those homes - changing the heat distribution, as we create heat islands...

We could conclude that those who oppose those things really have a desire to exterminate the human species. Or that they wish to deny that luxuries that they enjoy, to the rest of the world.

[Flash]

If there's anyone who doesn't know the long-established scientific basis for supposing that we humans are heating up our planet, the Wikipedia article on the Greenhouse Effect explains it all.

[RetroTechGuy]

If there's anyone who doesn't know the long-established scientific basis for supposing that we humans are heating up our planet, the Wikipedia article on the Greenhouse Effect explains it all.

For anyone that is unaware of Wiki's long standing political bias in favor of the "global warming" hypothesis, they did finally ban William Connolley:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/10/14/w ... wikipedia/

It is not clear if the bias has yet been purged.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/19/w ... formation/

We should note that Wiki ends with: "A runaway greenhouse effect involving carbon dioxide and water vapor is thought to have occurred on Venus."

Venus has very little water:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 092536.htm

Some will argue, "the water all evaporated". Thus I will ask you "then what is still driving the runaway feedback?".

Venus' problem is actually the lack of a water cycle. The Earth has a massive heat pump which transports energy from the surface, and radiates it into space -- evaporation, clouds and rain. We note that the "established models" (which are the foundation of the "long-established scientific basis") are unable to explain this most important water cycle.

But, for anyone who doesn't know the long-establish Beer's Law, basic spectral absorption theory, here is the explanation (this leads to the logarithmic effect):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer%E2%80%93Lambert_law

For anyone who doesn't know what the actual atmospheric energy transmission looks like, here is some experimental data (in particular, view the 15 um band -- the band which the IPCC says is the problem) :

http://www.coseti.org/images/atmosphe.gif

(yes, that is measurable 0% transmission at 15 um -- all available energy is absorbed within 1 km of air).

This shows the same basic results (though an unspecified path length):

http://web.archive.org/web/200803090236 ... rbspec.gif

For those who would like to learn more about this "saturation" effect, scroll down to Physicist Lubos Motl's "Carbon dioxide: painting your room sixteen times" header:

http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/06/realc ... usion.html

So what happens if we double the CO2?

http://web.archive.org/web/200803090236 ... use-X2.png

Or quadruple?

http://web.archive.org/web/200803090236 ... use-X4.png

We should note that the results from climatologist Dr. Richard Lindzen most closely match the output of MODTRAN, the spectroscopic program used to calculate spectral absorption. And the worst case for doubling shows ~1.3 C.

Could anything else affect this? What about the sun? Did the irradiance change?

http://web.archive.org/web/200803070129 ... diance.gif

Oops... I guess the sun out did change. Better ignore that fact, as it is not consistent with the hypothesis.

And, of course, we haven't even touched on the fact that the models used in the dire predictions fail to predict cloud cover, or atmospheric water load (water vapor is the strongest greenhouse gas).

Lastly, we should ask what do laboratory experiments of CO2 doubling show?

http://www.john-daly.com/artifact.htm

[Dougal]

speaking for australia, the last few prime ministers have been pushing to import as many people as possible, offer bonus money to mothers for having babies etc, all in an effort to get a larger tax base, simply so that the prime minister feels like he or she is playing with the big boys, even tho most this continent is unproductive dessert and cant support its current population.

Not that I contest that (and obviously your Govt. are wankers -- they supported Bush), but keep in mind two things:
- Encouraging people to spawn also has to do with the hokey economic theory that say that if the population gets "older" (due to less breeding), the economy will collapse, as there won't be enough people paying taxes to pay old peoples' pensions (that's what people say will happen to the Nords).

- Your homegrown boys and girls don't care much for the distasteful idea of working... they'd rather be dole bludgers. Or maybe have a baby and become a single mother. Or maybe just become a junkie and get a disability pension... so you need to imports some people to do all the dirty work and pay taxes to support the bums.

Dougal wrote:
This is pretty funny. Gotta love how they make themselves look like psychos (which they are...). Not that I think being compared to Kaczynski is necessarily bad...


Psychos? You mean Global Warmists? Yeah, they really are.

It could be useful to actually follow the link and see who I'm talking about (they also lost some busyness as a result of that).

[postfs1]

I still believe in Global Warming. Do you?

If i'll become dry, then, i assume, an uglified turd will become dry also. I'll be happy if an uglified turd will become dry without me. I'm a peaceful personage, so that i believe in a peaceful Global Warming when an uglified turd is becoming dry without me.

[jpeps]

I still believe in Global Warming. Do you?

If i'll become dry, then, i assume, an uglified turd will become dry also

ah..postfs1 refers to the over-production of methane through flatulence...interesting point.

[tallboy]

Sure I believe in global warming! And global cooling! The fact is, for the last 15 billion years (+/- 2years) this planet of ours has never been in any other state than warming or cooling! NEVER! We have never heard the weatherman say, that the next 12 weeks are sunny, apart from a little rainfall between 10 and 11.30 on wednesdays, because that's what it usually is this time of year. We would not have use for any weatherman no more, just look at the calendar, last year's if you don't update. Have you seen a 120-day forcast yet? I mean a correct one? In my parts of the world, the weather is a surprise from day to day.

The first UN report on the consquences of climatic change, led by norwegian pm mrs. Brundtland, warned about a situation with global freezing!

We have some weather mapping for the last couple of hundred years that say one thing, and some that say something else. Enter NASA, who has mapped weather from satellites for 30 years, and now suddenly is one of the leading authorities on climatic change!

That is 30 vs. 15.000.000.000 years.

Oh sure, thare are tests made several kilometers deep in the Greenland ice that tell a story. The story is what the weather was like 50.000 years ago, at that spot in Greenland.

Man made? It may be that man has made a contribution, but I think those who would like man to be bigger than nature - in an almost religious way, are in for a surprise. Too many reports are made to suit the idea that there is a warming on the way, while suppressing other findings. I follow all these reports in detail. and as I am opposed to the idea of man-made changes, I of course cheer within, whenever I see a report confirming my view.

I guess everybody on the other side do exactly the same thing when they see their view being 'confirmed'. Big deal!

So what to do? Adapt. You hear daily: look at the draught there and there, we loose all the land making food! Bulls...t! The millions of square miles of tundra in the polar regions wiil provide land for food production if they thaw. Oh, the water is raising, what shall we do? Move! The average temperature in antarctic is well below zero. If all predictions are correct, and the ice start melting, it is a process lasting thouands of years, you just don't wake up one morning with water under your bed!
Wake up, if the ice in the antarctic start melting as fast as the worst pessimists say, the rest of the planet is already empty because of the soaring heat!

You just wait and see. Well, no, there's really no point in that, have some good fun instead, and sit down and follow the drying process of some really slow-drying matt paint instead. In the meantime I just live on. You can do my contribution too, if you like: just drive your Prius twice as long, with a big smile on your face.

tallboy