Puppy's future is still not secure

[tlchost]

I have a "static" Opera build on my hard disk and no matter what puplet I test, I can always continue my work on the browser..

Interesting idea....ae you storing the cache and other dynamic items on the hard disk too?

A howto would be beneficial.

Thanks

Thom

[linuxsansdisquedur]

imnotrich said

A suggestion I've made before in other threads is that there be a mechanism for updating the list of downloads available in Puppy Package Manager. As more software/pets become available, they can be listed in the PPM. Otherwise users can spend countless hours and days trolling the forums, and if/when they find a pet it may or may not work with their version or worse, the attempt to download and install that pet will break something else.

It could be as simple as having Puppy Package Manager point to a url that is updated regularly.

I love my Puppy. Just wish additional software was easier to find.

...perhaps make sort of updated PSI (http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=10960 ) for any puplet/official to find it more simply...

[Bert]

With the browser a largely personal choice by the user, I wonder why we're not yet supporting hard-disk-installed browser. Was it coolpup that made a script for installing software outside the Puppy filesystem?

I have a "static" Opera build on my hard disk and no matter what puplet I test, I can always continue my work on the browser.

If we agree to put a marker on this browser directory, Puppy should be able to find it and ask the user: "Shall I place a desktop shortcut to your browser in /mnt/xxx?".

Hi Raffy,

I think your idea is worth its own thread. Publishing it here, it risks getting lost, given this thread's title.
Would you be willing to to elaborate a little more on your idea in a new topic?

Thanks!
Bert

[Bert]

BTW (and off-topic), who's coolpup..?

[ttuuxxx]

BTW (and off-topic), who's coolpup..?

coolpup is guy who helps out a great deal with packages on puppy, he usually helps out with the mainstream version, and never post text in the forum, just pm's. Kind of don't blame him, that way he doesn't get mixed-up in politics, just sticks to the grassroots.
ttuuxxx

[raffy]

I think your idea is worth its own thread. Publishing it here, it risks getting lost, given this thread's title.
Would you be willing to to elaborate a little more on your idea in a new topic?

Thanks for the reminder - I saw that it's already being done in Lucid Puppy by playdayz.

[Lobster]

Coolpup aka klhrevolutionist is active on the wiki
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/78415/index.html

[KF6SNJ]

I wanted to take some time to carefully read this before saying anything. I have had a hard time trying to make sense out of recent events in the Puppy Linux community. I know that something has apparently upset BarryK. I am not entirely certain of what, but given what I have been able to read, I am not certain that I blame him.

As for the future of Puppy. That can be as much up to us as it can be up to BarryK. Puppy is already a highly reliable lightweight OS. It can do the bulk of what other Linux distros do, and with only half the system resources. If BarryK truly chooses to leave Puppy, then the future of Puppy may lie in the various Puplets that have been created. Some of these have the ability to access the repository sites of Debian or Slackware. However, the Puppy Package Management System has some muscle of its own, even if it doesn't have the latest updates.

Let me ask, if only rhetorically, what is the goal of Puppy? If it is to be a community oriented OS in which users can find help when needed and is driven by a consistant user base, while remaining one of the smallest distros around, then Puppy is truly successful already. If the goal is to become more mainstream, then isn't that an issue of telling people about it and getting them to try it?

I like Puppy for it simplicity and easy of use. BarryK did a wonderful job in that regards. I am still running a computer that most normal people would have discarded years ago, and it is only because of Puppy that I am able to do this. This is the direction I hope to see Puppy continue in. Allowing people, like me, who can not afford the newest systems available, to continue to use old systems that Fedora, Slackware, PCLinuxOS, and others no longer support. I can tell you from experience that running the newest version of PCLinuxOS on a 1.4Ghz system is painful at best. Puppy on that same system is like running a supercomputer, its absolutely beautiful.

My only request would be a .SFS or .pet file with a beefed up compiler enviroment being made available. However, for my daily work, Puppy is about as perfect as I can ever hope to ask for.

I can not say what lies in Puppy's future, one way or the other. However, I firmly believe that Puppy still has a future. I know that I will still be using Puppy for a long time to come.


EDIT: Grammer Error

[TomRhymer]

With the browser a largely personal choice by the user, I wonder why we're not yet supporting hard-disk-installed browser. Was it coolpup that made a script for installing software outside the Puppy filesystem?

I have a "static" Opera build on my hard disk and no matter what puplet I test, I can always continue my work on the browser.

If we agree to put a marker on this browser directory, Puppy should be able to find it and ask the user: "Shall I place a desktop shortcut to your browser in /mnt/xxx?".

One problem with this is that some of us don't install Puppy. I often run Puppy from the CD as a rescue disk. I'd prefer to have a browser on the disk by default in case I have to use it. Needing to download a browser each time would be a pain, especially if I don't have access to high speed internet. I know that I can install the browser and put a save file on a flash drive, but I'd still prefer to have one on the disk.

[gerry]

I'm with KF6SNJ on one thing- Puppy's ability to run quickly ( or even at all) on old computers is an essential feature of Puppy. If that disappears in new versions, then one of the primary raisons d'etre of Puppy is gone. Any distro will run on the latest whizz-bang mega-everything computer, there would be little need for Puppy there.

gerry

[toowoombalinux]

G'day,
Puppy is inextricable linked to BarryK. This is a fact. With the development of 4.2 we saw this fact very clearly. So much so that Barry had to take the reins again as it was clear that it would have factured the Puppy community. The string of complaints and negativity towards WhoDo was disturbing at best and drove him away for a year.

If this situation occurs again (and it is inevitable) that Barry does "really" retire, Puppy Linux will fracture. We have currently too many strong "unofficial" derivative - such as Dpup, Upup, Spup, Lighthouse, MacPup, etc... - for one honcho (apart from Barry) to say which direction we would take. Puppy's strength is also a weakness. The ease which developers can make great derivative also gives them claim to steering the direction of Puppy.

It is my concern that the Community only truely respects one man. This is a strength and a weakness. Would or could Slackware continue without Patrick Volkerding - who would dare to take those reins! We have the same problem with Puppy. Who could walk in those shoes and keep the Puppy Community together?

I have a solution! When Barry retires we form a corporation with a Board. Like any Board the people chosen are the ones who can afford the biggest bribe. Then the Board can meeting in a nice relective room overlooking New York - with lots of polished ganite and marble surfaces. The Puppy Building (as it will be known) will feature large colour LED signage proclaiming to all the achievements of Puppy Linux. As you enter the building the visitor will marval at the 5 story Waterfall and wetland vista.
The Board can meet once a month for a self-congratulatory's session presented with the latest touchscreen projectors. The Board will also reject stupid suggestions for development from "experts!". Huh! What would they know! The Board will also ignore the Balance sheets - Hell we're too big to fail - the Government will bail us out!
After a year of consultation and committees in Bali, the Swiss Alps and French Polynesia we announce to the world that we are creating a company to oversea the developmental commitees that create the Policies and Procedures for Puppy "Windows".
Another 6 months pass and after a Board-member Safari in Africa, a correction in the Stock Exchange resulting in Puppy Corp's stocks going even higher - we then announce that we are having meeting to discuss our impressive rise while flying in a 767 over Antartica (atually we book the whole plane out).
Another 6 months pass and the Board has announced that Puppy Corp's Policies and Procedures have been completed and that the development of creating an Operating System can start once the fledgling "overseaing" company is created from that bail-out money the Government kindly gave us.
After each Board member experiences Russian space flight they sell their shares and get the company to purchase villas in Majorca. Board reshuffle! Let the "experts run things!". The ex-board members move to their houses in Majorca and pay doctors to say they can't respond to the High Court injunctions due to illness.
The Future of Puppy!
Cheers
Martin
Oops pressed ctrl-v twice

[tronkel]

@toowoombalinux

LOL all this is nothing new!

SCO have tried all this and look where it got them.

But amusing all the same.

[Pizzasgood]

My opinion: accept that Puppy is going to fracture, and embrace it.

Yes, I realize that there are a lot of poor newbies who just want something that works. Too bad. They can get their money back and go buy a mac.

Linux was never about them. It was about geeks having fun. And that is what makes Linux so great. It is made by people who have a passion for what they are doing.

People should not waste their energy trying to cater to newbies unless they want to.

If it turns out not enough people want to, then the newbies will just have to suck it up and either learn something, or accept that they aren't going to get a free lunch. Same goes for the people with old hardware. It is nobody's responsibility to care for them.

The fact is, Puppy is going to change. Fighting that will only make it worse. But change is a good thing. Stagnant water brings mosquitoes, and one size never fits all. It isn't a bad thing if Puppy breaks up into multiple projects targeting various niches. It isn't even a bad thing if everything deteriorates and everybody goes their own way. It is only a bad thing if a bunch of people waste their time arguing and doing things they don't enjoy trying to preserve something that is not even theirs.

That's why I say people should stop worrying and just have fun. There are several Puppy projects going strong. They will carry on the song, albeit with different styles. And the more fun they have, the longer and stronger they'll sing.

Just remember: if you force a song, it will sound like crap.

[bugman]

Just remember: if you force a song, it will sound like crap.

most often, though every once in a while you accidentally hit upon the fix that turns things around

[linuxsansdisquedur]

Agree with you pizzasgood puppy have to keepin fun !
Agree about linux which is not sold to his client and don't owe 'em anything.
But puppy is exception really gives free lunch out of the box !
Good amateur devs energies had given indestructible OS puppy even to newbies (i keep using good old dog pizzapup that give me anything dead 'dows used to give me and i consider myself a newbie).
Puppy will fracture ? puppy is made by Barry K to fracture itself in puplet !
But each users feel himself a part of the puppy community.
I think important keeping ourself in the same distro with one forum and one community, even if it will host many different project even with or without Barry K impulses.
It will be a long life to puppy(ies)!

[toowoombalinux]

Just remember: if you force a song, it will sound like crap.

Bit of a generalisation there. Every piece by Beethoven is forced! I like Beethoven!
Cheers
Martin

[shariebeth]

Yes, I realize that there are a lot of poor newbies who just want something that works. Too bad. They can get their money back and go buy a mac.

Linux was never about them. It was about geeks having fun. And that is what makes Linux so great. It is made by people who have a passion for what they are doing.

People should not waste their energy trying to cater to newbies unless they want to.

If it turns out not enough people want to, then the newbies will just have to suck it up and either learn something, or accept that they aren't going to get a free lunch. Same goes for the people with old hardware. It is nobody's responsibility to care for them.

I wonder how many linux people said that to you and the rest of the hotshots here in puppy, when YOU all were the newbies. Isn't the goal to welcome and enlighten people about the wonders of linux? And why DID somebody create the irc channel and beginner forum sections if there is such obvious distaste for newcomers within the high ranks of puppy?

Another diplomat bites the dust. Just the few of you keep talking, you'll get your wish. Nobody will be here, including new and current devs.
When "important" people post like this, it's a bigger turn off than your scapegoat could ever hope to be.

[hillside]

A bit of tough love there, eh Pizzasgood? Sounds good to me.

I'm no geek and I can't build my own Linux, but I can lurk around under the table and wait for a happy geek to drop a few crumbs. As long as there is some smart person building a linux that he or she likes to use, there will be a linux that will probably work for me also. I'll do my best not to be demanding of them.

There are very few Linux developers who hide their work in a dark place. Most share generously. They are wonderful people.

[Trobin]

Might be tough love, and it'll be love like that that will keep the likes of Bill Gates wealthy men.

[jemimah]

No doubt, but anyone who wants to criticize Pizzasgood can go work tier 1 tech support for a while and see how diplomatic you feel afterwards.

He's totally right though, what makes free software great is that it's crafted by artisans, not cranked out by committee.

If someone gives you a free handmade gift, do you complain to their face that it's not the one you wanted?