Puppy's future is still not secure

[Bert]

It seems even with Puppy 5 much of the software needs to be repackaged in order to work correctly with minimal dependencies.

Hi jeminah,

If I understand you correctly, that would mean the whole idea of opening up the repositories of Ubuntu, Debian, .., and make them available for us Puppy users, would become a complete failure. The original idea from Barry was to enable Puppy to download and install apps from the big guys repos. If these downloads need more tinkering first, we're back to square one.

Hope I misunderstood

[davesurrey]

Yes hope that's not what's being suggested.

[rcrsn51]

My concern with the Puppy 5 concept has always been that this forum would gradually become a satellite help desk for Ubuntu, Debian, etc.

The community has produced a myriad of useful, stable PET packages. I have never understood why they were not included in the Puppy ibiblio repo.

We all know that Puppy's biggest limitation, both in daily use and in public perception, is the lack of a decent repo. It doesn't need to be as big as Debian's - it should just be a one-stop location where people can find useful Puppy software.

[jemimah]

From Barry's blog:

I will build the first Wary Puppy in a couple of days. Gposil has uploaded a lot of packages to the 'pet_packages-5' directory at ibiblio, although these were compiled for Dpup, quite likely most of them will work, though some of them we might have to modify the prerequisites as Dpup had more packages built-in. We can compile more packages and upload them to ibiblio.

That's the definite impression I get.

I think a lot of debs with minimal dependencies would work, but shrinking packages (and removing dependencies) is an art form and not easily replaced by an automated system. Otherwise you might as well just use Debian/Ubuntu/Arch or whatever and just select a lightweight package set.

[hillside]

Here's just one guy's opinion.

I'll paraphrase some of the concerns that I've seen stated and attach my views.

1. Puppy isn't "moving ahead" fast enough. -- I don't see that as a problem. I often don't adopt new versions for some time. I skip versions if I have a puppy that I've tweaked into shape and am happy with it.

2. Puppy may become too much like other distros and lose it's unique identity. Why not just use one of those other distros? -- Puppy has a unique position in that it's reasonably complete, yet has a simple frugal install. DSL can do something similar, but it's not as complete. Tiny Core is extremely bare bones. Puppy still is filling that frugal niche that I like.

3. It's too hard to extend the OS. -- I'll admit it could be easier, but it's never been easy, so this isn't really a new problem.

4. It's an experimental distro that will have trouble ever becoming mainstream -- That's fine by me. When things are getting too close to the fringe, I just stick with the version that I'm running for a while more until things settle down and solidify a bit.

Like I say, these are paraphrases of my interpretation of what people are concerned about.

I for one am not in a state of panic (I doubt any of you really are).

[ttuuxxx]

Well it just got a bit more secure I'm building a 4.3.2 bug fix release found on http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=54082
to buy us sometime for 5 series to be released in a 5 weeks.
ttuuxxx

[cthisbear]

WhoDo:

I heard an echo.
Has someone found my true calling.

"Sadly there will always be backseat drivers in the development
world. :( They call out any errors (whether they exist or not).
They did not make the choice, so they feel safe from criticism. "

"""""""""

ttuuxxx:

I genuinely wish you every success.
That includes not calling you a pretend Yank
or criticising Canadian Beer.

Hey mate! no need to thank me right.

Anyway. I think it will be a standout release.

Regards...Chris.

[ttuuxxx]

WhoDo:

I heard an echo.
Has someone found my true calling.

"Sadly there will always be backseat drivers in the development
world. They call out any errors (whether they exist or not).
They did not make the choice, so they feel safe from criticism. "

"""""""""

ttuuxxx:

I genuinely wish you every success.
That includes not calling you a pretend Yank
or criticising Canadian Beer.

Hey mate! no need to thank me right.

Anyway. I think it will be a standout release.

Regards...Chris.

Chris I know it might break your bank but you can buy Canadian beer here in Australia, its the most expensive beer you can buy, almost $100 a case, there has to be some sort of mob/corruption going on in the prices, because in Canada its actually sells about the same as VB does here, and when they export it, its tax free, kind of like when you buy Canadian beer in the USA its around $25 a case. Actually its cheaper to buy it in the USA and take it back, I used to all the time it was a 20 minute trip, buy beer,gas some cheaper food items and back home i go. lol But here in Australia I have no choice, lol where's that international bridge anyways? lol
Canadian regular beer starts at 5% and goes to 11% if you like that cloudy beer from Quebec and the lite beer is around 4%. Australian beer is like 4.2-4.7 regular, almost as bad a US beer. There regular beer is less than Australian lite beer.
ttuuxxx

[WhoDo]

You are right. We need to find a way to support our leaders. Even Barry mentions the jibes on his log.
...[snip]...
This Puppy ultimate leader position is a big job for just one person. Especially if he / she has to hold down a job. Maybe a small close knit group could lead? Or maybe we can figure out how to raise money so the leader wouldn't have to hold down a job?

A small group of "trusted advisors" is an important support for a leader, but committee decisions are always going to be compromises - lose/lose outcomes all the way.

Where Puppy succeeds is in the spirit of collaboration that Barry's development model encourages. That's the only way a win/win outcome is possible.

That said, there can only be one final resting place for that "buck" that keeps getting passed around when committees rule. There has to be a skipper at the tiller, and the tiller had better be connected to a decent sized rudder because the bigger the "ship" the harder it is to get it to hold its course against a current or change direction when needed!

Barry is retired ... mostly ... so he has the time and lately he has rediscovered some of the early energy he lost around 4.12 days. He doesn't need any cred as the skipper. If he does decide to go fossicking, there had best be an anointed successor with either copious quantities of his/her own cred or at least a heap of heavily borrowed cred from Barry's anointing. If not Puppy will become an evolutionary dead end. None of us wants to see that.

Whoever is the "skipper" it's up to him or her to pick the "crew". The rest of us will remain passengers entitled to disembark whenever we don't like the direction the "ship" is taking.

@Chris (cthisbear) ... Helllooooo...oooo...oooo little Sir Echo! Seafaring analogies always make me pensive, but they do remind me of our common heritage.

[tlchost]

Well it just got a bit more secure I'm building a 4.3.2 bug fix release found on http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=54082
to buy us sometime for 5 series to be released in a 5 weeks.
ttuuxxx

Most of the posts there seem to be about Seamonkey. Once Seamonkey works as you want it to will you release the final version with the CUPS fix?

Thom

[ttuuxxx]

Well it just got a bit more secure I'm building a 4.3.2 bug fix release found on http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=54082
to buy us sometime for 5 series to be released in a 5 weeks.
ttuuxxx

Most of the posts there seem to be about Seamonkey. Once Seamonkey works as you want it to will you release the final version with the CUPS fix?

Thom

Yes I will, I'm updating my first on that thread you posted as I go, So you can see what V2 will have as I build it, a lot more than SM now:).
ttuuxxx

[tlchost]

Yes I will, I'm updating my first on that thread you posted as I go, So you can see what V2 will have as I build it, a lot more than SM now:).
ttuuxxx

Great.....a simple list of what's been done and what will be done would be a great help.

I'd hate to see your efforts bogged down by a browser, since many folks don't use seamonkey.

Thanks for finalizing it.

Thom

[ttuuxxx]

Yes I will, I'm updating my first on that thread you posted as I go, So you can see what V2 will have as I build it, a lot more than SM now:).
ttuuxxx

Great.....a simple list of what's been done and what will be done would be a great help.

I'd hate to see your efforts bogged down by a browser, since many folks don't use seamonkey.

Thanks for finalizing it.

Thom

I'm only using SM2 because a lot of people have been whining to update SM1 to SM2, So I figure why not give them the best possible version going on puppy and let them dislike it as it. lol I never use seamonkey either, but if I were to install FF3+ people would complain, this way I give them what they want and then they'll change there minds and finally we might be able to make a move to FF3 as united group. The rendering on some sites is really bad, lol this should be fun, too bad I spent so much time on making it so nice, oh well.
ttuuxxx

[jemimah]

Meh, it doesn't matter what browser you pick, about 1000 people will complain.

[RetroTechGuy]

Meh, it doesn't matter what browser you pick, about 1000 people will complain.

OK, let me complain...

<humor on>

Hey, I don't really like Seamonkey, and it was entirely too easy for me to install Firefox instead, and Puppy works way too good to be free software, I want more pain in figuring out how to make it work, and I want a lot more software bugs...

"Microsoft: What do you want to reinstall today? ..."

[yaku runa]

Puppy is not a popularity contest, Who cares what number it is? I really don't believe that more clicks on distrowatch makes a distro any better or more useful. Who really cares about Mint Linux or Mint Linux?

[davesurrey]

yaku runa:

Puppy is not a popularity contest, Who cares what number it is?

I guess you don't follow Barry's blog or else you would have seen that he seems to care.

I really don't believe that more clicks on distrowatch makes a distro any better or more useful

I tend to agree with you but this forum shows quite clearly how many disagree as well. One more state of confusion amongst puppy-folk.
Dave

[tlchost]

One more state of confusion amongst puppy-folk.
Dave

Ships without rudders tend to go off course.

[imnotrich]

When a new version of Puppy ships, only a handful of programs are listed in Puppy Package Manager and usually nothing that average users would be interested in or find useful (except maybe firefox).

A suggestion I've made before in other threads is that there be a mechanism for updating the list of downloads available in Puppy Package Manager. As more software/pets become available, they can be listed in the PPM. Otherwise users can spend countless hours and days trolling the forums, and if/when they find a pet it may or may not work with their version or worse, the attempt to download and install that pet will break something else.

It could be as simple as having Puppy Package Manager point to a url that is updated regularly.

I love my Puppy. Just wish additional software was easier to find.

[raffy]

With the browser a largely personal choice by the user, I wonder why we're not yet supporting hard-disk-installed browser. Was it coolpup that made a script for installing software outside the Puppy filesystem?

I have a "static" Opera build on my hard disk and no matter what puplet I test, I can always continue my work on the browser.

If we agree to put a marker on this browser directory, Puppy should be able to find it and ask the user: "Shall I place a desktop shortcut to your browser in /mnt/xxx?".