Gary McKinnon will be extradited to the United States

[Aitch]

The UK Home Secretary Alan Johnson said he had considered demands for him to intervene in the case but had decided that the extradition would not breach Mr McKinnon's human rights.

Mr McKinnon, who has Asperger's syndrome, was given hope last month when the Home Secretary agreed to study new medical evidence before deciding on his extradition to the US. Mr Johnson's deliberations came after the High Court refused the 43-year-old permission to appeal to the Supreme Court against his removal to America.

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx ... =151083279

Aitch

[diaeresis]

I believe he still has one shot at breaking this in the UK, it is a little iffy as his solicitors where only given seven days to prepare but if that attempt fails he still has the European Court to go to. It is not over yet.
I personally think the guy was a tit of the largest size but sticking him in a little room for the next 30 plus years isn't really the best way to treat anyone with a mental illness unless they have actually done a bit of mad-axe murdering.
Hopefully the European Court will come down for him and he can go back to being weird in private.

[thane]

I'm an American. I think this McKinnon guy did commit crimes and ought to be prosecuted. Not happy about flying him all the way to the U.S. to do it, but there doesn't seem to be any other way under current law. And of course it should be an ordinary criminal case and not a 'terrorist' one (I'm still waiting for Obama to follow through and close Guantanamo).

Maybe in the future this type of case will be handled under international law and each country will deal with its own citizens.

[paulh177]

Asperger's Syndrome is not treated as a "mental illness" in the UK; it is treated as a "developmental disorder".
This probably has legal implications

[diaeresis]

Strip all the people out of this and what you get is a fundamental imbalance in the extradition arrangements between the UK and the US.
What the UK could do with is a strong government with a will to address that.
Don't hold your breath!

[Aitch]

diaeresis

Strong Government.....NO THANKS!

I want a compassionate one!

thane, I feel sorry for you...What damage was done looking for UFOs?....Garry McKinnen has a reason for his 'crime'

The people who made it a crime don't suffer from Asperger's Syndrome, so what's your/ their excuse?

Stone heart disease?

Aitch

[paulh177]

The issue here is not about the criminality of the action, but whether someone with the disorder Mr. McKinnon has can understand the criminality of his actions, the implications of his actions, or form a (moral) judgment about them. That is to say, his "mental capacity" is in question.

[Caneri]

This may be of use for the truly hard hearted and ignorant (as in what this disorder is) forum users.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

I regret I too fell into a trap of mis-understanding with a forum user that has Asperger syndrome.
The person in my experience was also a talented computer programmer/interested Puppy user and all around decent lad.....alas I misunderstood the motives to changes made on his personal info.

I learned from that one and will support his mothers statement as follows

Ms Sharp said: "To force a peaceful, vulnerable, misguided UFO fanatic like Gary thousands of miles away from his much-needed support network is barbaric. This is a cruel and miserable decision. If the severity of Gary's medical condition isn't sufficient to prevent his extradition, I can't imagine what is. God help others facing a similar fate. I'm so upset and angry."

Then again the American sub-currents are somewhat cruel. I still think the true measure of a great nation is compassion towards it's people...not the prison system which is a private corporation as well.....hey..fill 'er up. The more the cheaper as far as I can see. The land of the free indeed and the rocket's red glare..good grief Charlie Brown...Eric

[thane]

If I had a stone heart, what's happening to McKinnon wouldn't bother me at all. Another criminal who got caught and who ought to be in jail.

I think he probably does have problems and is probably relatively harmless. But he had the mental capacity to hack into what should have been secure systems and potentially do a great deal of harm. That's not something that you can just let slide.

Hopefully at trial (which unfortunately has to be held in the U.S.) all this will get sorted out. As I said, I don't think the problem is stony hearts but laws that aren't really setup to handle this kind of situation.

[Caneri]

@thane,
The USA prosecutors are there to win as is proven by the continued hounding of a clearly and medically diagnosed individual..and in another country to boot.(..lawyers are trained to win the case at ALL costs)....not to understand.

You can be assured there will be no justice in this case.

Eric

[sikpuppy]

Perhaps if he had killed a planeload of people the Scottish government might have offered asylum.

[Aitch]

http://freegary.org.uk/

Aitch

[Aitch]

Update: Looks as though, despite Police terrorism bans on other days/locations, a peaceful demo will now take place

There will be now be another peaceful demonstration in support of Gary McKinnon, at the Home Office in Marsham Street, London, this coming Tuesday 15th December 2009 from 12 noon until 2pm

and this from the support website

Gary McKinnon is not indicted in the USA on anything to do with the alleged "confidentiality and snoensitivity" of any information he may have gleaned. There are espionage allegations, only unsubstantiated claims of financial damage, not involving the theft of any money or goods.

If ,as he alleges, there were plenty of other hackers from around the world invading the same systems at the same time, then half the crucial witnesses and evidence such as United Kingdom Internet Service provider logfiles and the computer he used, are here in the UK, not in the USA. These may or may not prove that Gary was involved with one of the 97 systems at a particular time, but none of that prima facie evidence has been tested in any court, despite all the Extradition hearings and appeals.

Some of it would have been cross examined under the old extradition Act 1989, which was in force when Gary was arrested in 2002., but the retrospectively applied Extradition Act 2003 has prevented that.

Anyone feel like writing to President Obama?

The whole saga around this 'case' stinks to me....

Aitch

[cthisbear]

This has always been about pride.
The wounded bull syndrome.

Poor security.
Fat budget.
Idiot bureaucracy.
Gosh not us...the almighty US.

All these lot should have been accountable.

Look at the Obama dinner fiasco the other week.
Laughable how those 2 got to see the president.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and- ... -spanking/

/////////

And wasn't McKinnon on Dialup????

" Using a 56k dial-up modem and the hacking name "Solo"
McKinnon was able to get around a security flaw in
Microsoft Widows to gain access to the computers.

http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/ ... ition-case

///////

And how about the Pommy government.
Piss weak.
No Winston Churchill moments.
To busy getting their ponds and clocks fixed.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 928536.ece

//////////

Maybe Obama could qualify for the Peace Prize
if he dropped this idiotic suit and feather dusted
the buzzards who actually run his show.

No offense...but this is why you are called Yank Tanks.

Chris.

[PaulBx1]

Poor security.
Fat budget.
Idiot bureaucracy.
Gosh not us...the almighty US.

All these lot should have been accountable.

Well, somebody has to be made the scapegoat. Wouldn't want NASA bureaucrats losing their jobs, would we?

[Aitch]

Update 13 Jan 2010

Gary's Lawyers have succeeded in getting permission for a Judicial Review of Alan Johnson's [UK Home Secretary's] decision to extradite him

[quote]In November, it seemed certain that Mr McKinnon would be extradited after Mr Johnson, the Home Secretary, ruled he should go, ignoring fresh medical advice from Professor Jeremy Turk, a consultant pyschiatrist, that he was suicidal.

However Mr Justice Mitting said it was “arguable

[Aitch]

Update: Judicial Review granted

In the High Court of Justice
Queen's Bench Division
Administrative Court


CO Ref: CO/15072/2009

In the matter of an application for Judicial Review


The Queen on the application of GARY MCKINNON

versus

SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT

NOTIFICATION of the Judge's decision (CPR Part 54.11, 54.12)

Following consideration of the documents lodged by the Claimant {and the Acknowledgment(s) of service filed by the Defendant and / or Interested Party]

Order by the Honourable Mr Justice Mitting

Permission is hereby granted

Observations:

This claim raises two stark and simple issues:

(1) Did the, as yet unchallenged and unqualified, evidence of Professor Turk that suicide "will be an almost certain inevitability should he experience extradition" require the defendant under section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998, to refuse to surrender the Claimant to the government of the USA?

(2) Does the opinion of Professor Turk amount to a fundamental change in the circumstances previously considered by the courts and by the Defendant?

Both issues are arguable; and,if the answer to both is affirmative, it is arguable that the Defendant's decision not to refuse to surrender was unlawful.

[standard court claim filing instructions omitted]

Also, a change of heart from the Home secretary's lawyers....?

HC Deb, 7 January 2010, c518W

Extradition: USA
Home Department

Written answers and statements, 7 January 2010


Andrew MacKinlay (Thurrock, Labour)

To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his duty to assess the appropriateness of extraditing persons to the US in relation to health grounds applies (a) at the time of the receipt of the US application, (b) at the time of proceedings in the UK and (c) at the time immediately before the extradition takes place; and if he will make a statement.

Meg Hillier (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Home Office; Hackney South & Shoreditch, Labour)

holding answer 6 January 2010

In the scheme of the Extradition Act 2003, it falls to the courts to determine whether health factors raise a barrier to a person's extradition. However, the Home Secretary has an implied power to withdraw an extradition order where, exceptionally, a new matter arises subsequent to the completion of all proceedings under the Act but before extradition takes place. The basis for this implied power is section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998, which renders it unlawful for the Home Secretary, as a public authority, to act in a way which is incompatible with a Convention right.

_____________________________________________________________

Presumably this Parliamentary Written Answer is the latest considered view of the Home Office's legal advisors.

This rather contradicts Home Secretary Alan Johnson's earlier testimony in front of the Home Affairs Select Committee, where he did his Pontius Pilate like shrugging of shoulders, claiming that he had no power to intervene and stop the extradition of Gary McKinnon to the USA.

Excerpts from http://freegary.org.uk/

Go there to add your voice, join the petition, or learn what you can do to help prevent this injustice

Aitch

[nooby]

He is a kind of victim of the "Truthers" attitude to think that there exists a lot of secrets that one can find in files if one just can crack into the computers and him wanting to know the truths about UFOs got too caught up in the faith that such secret files would exist.

I can be wrong but I guess that all of UFO and Aliens are things in our heads that make us believe in incredible things. Maybe our body has its own agenda that we have little conscious control over.

[thane]

No he will not:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oc ... s-set-free

He may still face charges in the UK though.

[NeroVance]

This may be of use for the truly hard hearted and ignorant (as in what this disorder is) forum users.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

I regret I too fell into a trap of mis-understanding with a forum user that has Asperger syndrome.
The person in my experience was also a talented computer programmer/interested Puppy user and all around decent lad.....alas I misunderstood the motives to changes made on his personal info.

I learned from that one and will support his mothers statement as follows

Ms Sharp said: "To force a peaceful, vulnerable, misguided UFO fanatic like Gary thousands of miles away from his much-needed support network is barbaric. This is a cruel and miserable decision. If the severity of Gary's medical condition isn't sufficient to prevent his extradition, I can't imagine what is. God help others facing a similar fate. I'm so upset and angry."

Then again the American sub-currents are somewhat cruel. I still think the true measure of a great nation is compassion towards it's people...not the prison system which is a private corporation as well.....hey..fill 'er up. The more the cheaper as far as I can see. The land of the free indeed and the rocket's red glare..good grief Charlie Brown...Eric

I know that feeling on both sides Caneri. I have Aspergers and have been hurt in the past, and have unknowingly hurt others. But it has helped me grow and realize my mistakes.

And I think that if the puppian you speak of is reading this right now, (s)he will probably be very compassionate, if (s)he has Aspergers like me, and is anything like me.

Who knows, they might still love Puppy, as I was away from puppy for a long time, but always used Puppy for various things, and I loved it still. Maybe they will even make a comeback