Puppy 4.4 CE - Phase 1: pet tests

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jabu2 · #101 Post by **jabu2** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 01:36

Recapping at this stage may be useful?
Maybe this is drafting a minute - or something to go on front page of Lobster's wikka44 ?
- under a subtitle 44 Specifications

Technosaurus has defined the shape of 4.4CE.
In summary, 4.4CE will be a smorgasbord approach, rather like the ChoicePup derivative. It will comprise a core Puppy based on 4.3.1 and maintaining Puppy's ~100MB size, PLUS all or most applications easily available as sfs add-ons (with choices available).

Above spec is based on coordinator Technosaurus posts to forum as follows:

01 Oct
using abiword and gnumeric as a choice pup style goffice.sfs that would make it easy to dump and replace with openoffice.sfs or koffice.sfs. The big trick is getting the load_sfs working since there are significant difference in the structure

02 Oct
abiword/gnumeric ... will be on a separate "office.sfs" that is automatically loaded at boot time if present (which it will be) This will make it easier to include/exclude/replace (for example with koffice or openoffice)

We do have a lot of packages available in the forums that could be integrated into the main body. One thing that needs to first be done with most of them is quality control (dependencies listed in the .specs, properly spilt into DEV, DOC and NLS, binaries and libraries stripped, etc...) I can write something up for beginner to intermediate users to be able to do this and repackage them. ... will also need a place for them to upload or I guess if we go with Opera we could use Opera Unite.

04 Oct
This is what I am planning to do once Barry has put out 4.3.1 bugfixes
1. Set up for *office.sfs *browser.sfs and possibly *wm.sfs (similar to zdrv)
a.) Option 1 via init and/or boot parameters
b.) Option 2 via load_sfs
2. office.sfs could be soffice.sfs, goffice.sfs koffice.sfs or ooffice.sfs...
3. browser.sfs could be smbrowser.sfs ffbrowser.sfs or operabrowser.sfs...
4. wm.sfs could almost be infinite
5. I would also like to have the zdrv back as a separate sfs for easier cutdown/addon for specific hardware." (end quotes)
-----------------------------------------------
Comment: as a potential user, Technosaurus' plans look good to go.

djnrempel · #102 Post by **djnrempel** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 03:57

One of my main interests in Puppy is as a development server for PHP sites. In terms of modularity, I'd love to see the following options

- Base Hiawatha install
Optional additional packages:
- php with sqlite support
- php with mysql support
- php with both.

Would it be possible to just add Quisp, Sqlite, MySQL as separate sfs files?

raffy · #103 Post by **raffy** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 05:43

The others are only small so they might as well go with the big one to make one sfs.

aragon · #104 Post by **aragon** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 10:29

technosaurus wrote:libical is over 300Kb (over 600Kb with c++ support) so we need a fairly good reason to use it. What does it do for osmo? Can any other programs in Puppy benefit from it?

Perhaps I can link against it statically to save some space if nothing else can use it?
I was already able to shrink osmo from 866Kb to 554Kb so it should be doable.

google uses ical (AFAIK) so you'll need it to exchange files with google.
EDIT: ical is used to interchange data with other apps. google calendar is able to import/export ical.

if i remember right, BK also linked ical statically in his latest osmo-package. EDIT: See note here: http://puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=01005

aragon

technosaurus · #105 Post by **technosaurus** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 16:24

Thanks Aragon. Seems like we have call for a few programs to have a few static components.

Inkscape - libgnomeprint & libgnomeprintui
abiword - libwv, libwmf,... possibly for plugins aiksaurus, enchant, ...
gparted - gtkmm & other *mm components
osmo - libical
gnumeric - maybe goffice, libglade

to check I basically did the following:
ldd on /usr/bin /usr/sbin /usr/lib /usr/local/bin >>file
sort file > sortedfile
checked which libs only have one or two lines using uniq
found out which program uses those libs from file
put them on my recompile static list

And I have begun to identify others that could benefit from shared libs
All mozilla components (seamonkey, firefox...) - nss and nspr
(this will allow building using the --with-system-nspr and --with-system-nss tags to keep the browser.sfs smaller)
I have been rebuilding the majority of packages and trying to verify that the Makefiles get properly set up to pick up system shared libs rather than using builtin static versions or system static versions. libz is a big offender since it is in /lib and the .a is in /usr/lib (where the build scripts tend to look) putting a symlink in /usr/lib solves this but I have been manually editing the makefiles to replace -lz with /lib/libz.so...

Does anyone else know of any other such nuances?

Aitch · #106 Post by **Aitch** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 21:17

Hi Techno

Good to see you at the controls on this

I'd like to suggest a noobies request be given consideration, if anyone's up for it

hepcatfive wrote:Is there a Puppy just for newbies loaded with extra help files, virtual tours of installed software, manual PDFs, video tutorials, etc.?

One of the things which irks me is the poor use of video help files - there've been a few on youtube & Lobster did a few....but lots more is possible - How about a help.sfs??

Any offers?

for some reason klu9's Truveo linker isn't working for me...?

http://klu9.50webs.com/puppystuff.html

Aitch

technosaurus · #107 Post by **technosaurus** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 21:31

Thanks Aitch. I would prefer to have a basic getting started type help page (possibly with extra online links) in the root of the iso. That way it can be accessed from any OS even if it does not support sfs.... but yes its a good idea that I had meant to address. I already plan to make a separate DOC sfs that will contain all of the included programs' documentation (dir2pet makes them, might as well do something with them)

gyro · #108 Post by **gyro** » Fri 09 Oct 2009, 16:41

Hi,
Might I humbly suggest that some work be done to improve the way puppy handles desktop icons. Something a bit similar to the way menu items are defined. My suggestion, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 427#349427

gyro

Aitch · #109 Post by **Aitch** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 01:19

meagain, I forgot to request inclusion of, and maybe expansion to function re: sfs's , to Catdude's graphical grub

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=27471

Makes for a more welcoming Pup, IMHO

Also some interesting thoughts being explored re: bugfixing/longevity of the Pup, and software maintenance, here

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... &start=135

As I said recently to Colonel Schell, I hope my mind meanderings don't deter you from your task...?

Aitch

shinobar · #110 Post by **shinobar** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 10:33

Hi all,
I propose 4 app.s from 4.30 Japanese edition. They must be usefull for the next puppy.

pupsaveconfig 1.2 : GUI of personal storage file setting at the first time shutdown.
Grub4Dos 0.4.4.v1.1 : A bootloader supports ntfs, with GUI configurator.
Winfonts 3.3 : If Windows is installed, divert the Windows fonts and the virtual memory.
acpid-1.0.8-5 : Shutdown with power supply button. Suspend by closing the lid such as notebooks PC.

All available from this link.

Remarkablly, Grub4Dos in the Japanese edition enables easy to install Puppy. Follow next procedure. You need not the Puppy Universal Installer.

Boot from the live CD, or with any other measure.
Create a folder at the top layer of any partition (can be ntfs, vfat or ext2/ext3 file systems), '/mnt/sda1/pup430' for example.
Coppy all files in the live CD. (If you copy them on Windows OS, the file names may all turn to upper case. You need correct the case of file names in this occasion.)
Menu > System > Grub4Dos boot loader. Answer 'OK' for any question.
Remove CD and bootup Puppy from HDD. If failed, bootup from live CD and check the procedure up.

moogsydodong · #111 Post by **moogsydodong** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 11:03

hi techno...

the idea of splitting puppy into different sfs i.e. soffice.sfs, wm.sfs and so on is a dream come true...I'm excited on the outcome of this 4.4CE

another suggestion would be to separate the Xorg package(Xorg.sfs)
maybe we can have 2 option for Xorg

1. Xorg_full.sfs(like in the PPM Xorg_full_dri.pet)
2. Xorg_basic.sfs(like the usual Xorg default in puppy)
3. Xorg_mega.sfs(maybe a full Xorg with openGL DRI and maybe Nvidia/Ati drivers already included...

I dont think this is a practical request...I guess I'm dreaming again)
please wake me up...

awaw...

gyro · #112 Post by **gyro** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 15:53

technosaurus wrote:That brings us back to how the file system is layered backwards, the pupXXX.sfs should be able to be covered by other files on a loaded sfs. This behavior makes it difficult to make useful addons.

I think I've produced a patched "init" for "initrd.gz" that loads pup-430.sfs last in the unionfs/aufs. This is only for the sfs's loaded at boot time, but it's a start.

I have attached a new "init" file, it is the release "init" from initrd.gz in pup-430.iso, with just my changes. My edits are marked with "#gyro" before and after them.

It seems to work in a test frugal install on my machine.

gyro

Edit: I'll have a look at extending the edits so that the zpXXXXXX.sfs also gets mounted under the used defined sfs's.

technosaurus · #113 Post by **technosaurus** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 17:16

@ gyro - this is a tricky one since you have to consider how many loops there are - did you use the maxloops patch as well?

Aitch · #114 Post by **Aitch** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 17:43

There's also work done on SFS mounts by the Japanese Puppy team

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 559#349559

shinobar wrote:
ICPUG wrote: What changes were required to allow sfs stored in /mnt/home/puppy to be recognised?
tnx ICPUG for your interest

we modified both 'init' script in initrd.gz and /usr/sbin/bootmanager.

From this link, you can find the modified init init-430utf8 and the initrd.gz includs it, and the diff pet named I18nPuppy430_diff-0.3.pet.

you can experience it if you replace initrd.gz and apply the pet against puppy 4.30.

Aitch

gyro · #115 Post by **gyro** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 18:18

technosaurus wrote:@ gyro - this is a tricky one since you have to consider how many loops there are - did you use the maxloops patch as well?

No patches added to release 4.3, just my edits.
My edits should be independent of the number of loops. It just moves the system stuff to after the loop setup sfs's. Here's the original mount command for unionfs:

Code: Select all

 mount -t unionfs -o dirs=${UMNTMAIN}${ZLAYER}${UMNTRO} unionfs /pup_new

here's mine

Code: Select all

 mount -t unionfs -o dirs=${UMNTMAIN}${UMNTRO}${UMNTSYS}${ZLAYER} unionfs /pup_new

The preceding code generates the definitions for the various layers in the series of variables. The user specified sfs's are all in UMNTRO no matter how many loops. I've moved the definition for pup_ro2 (loop0), out of UMNTMAIN into a new variable UMNTSYS, and then rearranged the order of the variables.

Since zpXXXXXX.sfs is defined in ZLAYER, my latest version of "init" puts it under the user specified sfs's, also.

I have attached my latest version of "init"

gyro

Aitch · #116 Post by **Aitch** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 18:52

If it hasn't been mentioned
Please also include pizzasgood's multi-user function

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=47409

Aitch

technosaurus · #117 Post by **technosaurus** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 21:37

I would really like to include multiuser but that may be better left for 4.5X since a lot of his fixes need to be translated into the woof build tree (from unleashed), and lots of software repackaged, but maybe it is easier than I suspect. I will make a separate multiuser branch for testing though.

shinobar · #118 Post by **shinobar** » Sun 11 Oct 2009, 02:52

Aitch wrote:There's also work done on SFS mounts by the Japanese Puppy team
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 559#349559

tnx Aitch.
well... the init script on the japanese edition is quite a few modified from the original.

as for the main sfs filename, it allows trail characters after the version number, such as 'pup-430JP.sfs'.
additional sfs files can be read from subsidiry directories, say /mnt/home/puppy/*.sfs (coop with modified /usr/sbin/bootmanager).
do not coppy the main sfs files to HDD. that is performed by /etc/rc.shutdown(also modified for japanese edition).
in case you have pupsave and no main sfs on HDD, you boot up from live CD, the original init script does not coppy whole main sfs on the ram no matter the size of ram. therefore, you cannot unmount your live CD. japanese edition coppies the whole sfs if ram size >= 256MB.
original init script fails to find the main sfs on HDD in case there are multiple main sfs on HDD and you boot up from the live CD. japanese edition, fixed.
original init script does not always pick up main sfs from the same directory of pupsave. japanese edition, better but not perfect.

shinobar · #119 Post by **shinobar** » Sun 11 Oct 2009, 02:53

for the next init script i like to ignore case in finding main sfs.
means it allows both 'pup-xxx.sfs' or 'PUP-XXX.SFS'.
it is safe if a Windows user try to install puppy with Windows OS.

how do you think?

Aitch · #120 Post by **Aitch** » Sun 11 Oct 2009, 11:05

Cool - maybe those who are working on changes to init/sfs mounts can get together, or at least let Techno know who you are/what mods you have done.....as it seems we are getting many different mixes, where they could usefully be combined, and take good advantage of googlecode/bugtracker maybe?

Yes/no?

Aitch

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Puppy 4.4 CE - Phase 1: pet tests

4.4 phase 1 specifications

small

Improve the handling of desktop icons

app. from 4.30 Japanese edition

init script on japanese edition

idea on init script