BusterDog + build system (no-systemd)

[mauros]

@mauros I see you love JWM. I do not. Rox, I do not like it neither. Thanks God he created colors to chose from. I am a fan of LXDE, I know I came from lame Win.

I came from Irix (Silicon Graphics unix) and i actually prefer i3 desktop. Those task/panels etc are for people came from windows and we are trying to help them. I'd suggested you the MATE desktop. It's stable, lightweight, configurable with an environment similar to win. Maybe it's the reason that mint became so popular among XP-refugees.

[fredx181]

I have a question for Fred. I do have various disk on some PC and/or at least various partitions. When I install BusterDog64 with change.dat at boot time, I had only mounted Home drive where BusterDog reside. But If instead, I chose a ext Linux partition to mount a change folder, then a weird thing happen! It boot with ALL my partitions mounted... Why this behavior? Thanks ahead.

First thing that comes in mind is that you booted without the "noauto" option (on the boot kernel line), then it will mount all partitions, with "noauto" only the boot/save partition will be mounted.

Fred

[enrique]

@mauros Yes I am one of those win10 refuges. I meet BusterDog and so far it has met all my requirements. So I plan to stick to it. I like to keep only one Linux system so that I can master it. But so far I have test 10th if not hundred of different puppys. I am willing to look at another if it is a quick frugal install. Where is this MATE desktop? Is this a Puppy?

@fredx181 I bet you are correct. I did switch just removing .dat. So the the big question is: What is the correct boot kernel line?

By the way you mention that there is a way to boot not using AUFS instead squashfs or overlayfs. I am not sure what you did mention but willing to try.

[mauros]

@mauros Yes I am one of those win10 refuges. I meet BusterDog and so far it has met all my requirements. So I plan to stick to it. I like to keep only one Linux system so that I can master it. But so far I have test 10th if not hundred of different puppys. I am willing to look at another if it is a quick frugal install. Where is this MATE desktop? Is this a Puppy?

As long as BusterDog is a puppy, it is. You can install and pack a basic MATE desktop from debian repos. I was talking about linux desktop in general. Porteus (slackware based) for instance has an interesting MATE implementation packed in a 30MB xzm module.

[fredx181]

@fredx181 I bet you are correct. I did switch just removing .dat. So the the big question is: What is the correct boot kernel line?

Maybe you can show what you have now and say what you need or not.

By the way you mention that there is a way to boot not using AUFS instead squashfs or overlayfs. I am not sure what you did mention but willing to try.

Yes, porteus-boot style can only use AUFS, but "live-boot" (used by official Debian Live) can use overlayfs (which is in fact the default, I think)
See here for options (BusterDog live-boot-3x):
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Debia ... -codes.txt

rcrsn51 did some development for ease of installing and setting up persistence:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 52#1044052

EDIT: Also see here for documentation:
https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/live ... .7.en.html

Fred

[enrique]

I feel really s7up1d. Yes I deleted "noauto". What happened is that I could not make it work. So I did try a few ways. At the end it seems I mistakenly deleted "noauto". Mysterious resolved.

So just as the script shows a have a frugal install in a NTFS partition I think on SDA2. And I try to set up a folder install in SDA3 ext4

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title LxPupBuster (sda2/LxPupBuster)
  uuid 349D-3AE0
  kernel /LxPupBuster/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/LxPupBuster/ changes=EXIT:/LxPupBuster/live/changes.dat
  initrd /LxPupBuster/live/initrd1.xz

title LxPupBuster_full (sda2/LxPupBuster)
  uuid 349D-3AE0
  kernel /LxPupBuster/live/vmlinuz1 from=/LxPupBuster changes=/mnt/sda3/LxPupBuster/live
  initrd /LxPupBuster/live/initrd1.xz

Now for the folder option "LxPupBuster_full" I am sure system reads sda2/LxPupBuster/live/vmlinuz1. But I am believe it read the rest of the stuff at sda3/LxPupBuster/live folder where I have a copy. And the extra "sda3/LxPupBuster/live/changes" folder.

I even have setup and extra "sda3/LxPupBuster/live/root". It is not a real root, but it is where I have some permanent apps like my tvheadend/oscam and tuning channels list. So if my "sda3/LxPupBuster/live/changes" gets corrupted I can delete that folder without having to re-setup my Satellite tuning apps.

Edit:
@mauros

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As long as BusterDog is a puppy,

I know I have many correcting me. Well we are in "murga-linux.com/puppy" forum. Now the real question is: What is the real "Puppy Linux" definition?

I see MATE is a Desktop Environment. I guess I will stay with LXDE.

[fredx181]

I feel really s7up1d. Yes I deleted "noauto". What happened is that I could not make it work. So I did try a few ways. At the end it seems I mistakenly deleted "noauto". Mysterious resolved.

So just as the script shows a have a frugal install in a NTFS partition I think on SDA2. And I try to set up a folder install in SDA3 ext4

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title LxPupBuster (sda2/LxPupBuster)
  uuid 349D-3AE0
  kernel /LxPupBuster/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/LxPupBuster/ changes=EXIT:/LxPupBuster/live/changes.dat
  initrd /LxPupBuster/live/initrd1.xz

title LxPupBuster_full (sda2/LxPupBuster)
  uuid 349D-3AE0
  kernel /LxPupBuster/live/vmlinuz1 from=/LxPupBuster changes=/mnt/sda3/LxPupBuster/live
  initrd /LxPupBuster/live/initrd1.xz

If /mnt/sda3/LxPupBuster/live exists, it should work, but I'd say better work with unique name (that only exist on one partition), so for example if you create folder "Busterdog_Changes" on sda3, then this should work :

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title LxPupBuster_full (sda2/LxPupBuster)
  uuid 349D-3AE0
  kernel /LxPupBuster/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/LxPupBuster changes=/Busterdog_Changes
  initrd /LxPupBuster/live/initrd1.xz

Fred

[rcrsn51]

... but I'd say better work with unique name (that only exist on one partition)

The stretch-live-frugal-installer works with UUIDs, so this is never a problem.

[keniv]

Hi All,
I also have a booting problem. I have a new machine (well new to me). It's a dell Vostro 230. It has a 250GB SATA hd. This is split into three partitions. sda1 is a small boot partition, sda2 has win7 and sda3 is largely empty. All are formatted as ntfs. I have Racy55 and BusterDog on sda3. I am using grub4dos to boot these. Win7 and Racy55 boot OK but I can only partially boot BusterDog. It stops telling me it can't find vmlinuz1 and perhaps my cheat codes are wrong. When booting on my previous machine I was using grub2 from ubuntu and this worked fine. Below is my boot script in grub4dos.

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title BusterDog (sda3/32busterdog) 
root (hd0,2) 
kernel (hd0,2)/32busterdog/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/ changes=/mnt/sda3/32busterdog/live/changes.dat 
initrd (hd0,2)/32busterdog/live/initrd1.xz

I have grub installed in the small boot partition(sda1). BusterDog is installed on sda3 in a folder called 32busterdog. inside that folder I have 'live'. Inside live I have put an empty file called 'changes.dat'. I think (hd0,2) is equivalent to sda3 but I'm not sure
I have also tried,

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title BusterDog (sda3/32busterdog) 
root (hd0,2) 
kernel /mnt/sda3/32busterdog/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/ changes=/mnt/sda3/32busterdog/live/changes.dat 
initrd /mnt/sda3/32busterdog/live/initrd1.xz

and

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title BusterDog (sda3/32busterdog) 
root (hd0,2) 
kernel /sda3/32busterdog/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/ changes=/mnt/sda3/32busterdog/live/changes.dat 
initrd /sda3/32busterdog/live/initrd1.xz

but these don't get me further than the start of the boot process.
I have also tried various versions of,

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 noauto from=/ changes=/mnt/sda3/32busterdog/live/changes.dat 

but I was not expecting this to work and it didn't. Can somebody please point me in the right direction to get BusterDog to boot on this machine.

Regards,

Ken.

[rcrsn51]

... and sda3 is largely empty. All are formatted as ntfs

Why are you using NTFS to work with Linux on sda3????

In order for this to work, a Linux needs read-write support for NTFS at the boot stage. I doubt if the Dogs have that.

If sda3 has lots of space, run Gparted and split off a Linux ext partition.

[keniv]

... and sda3 is largely empty. All are formatted as ntfs

Why are you using NTFS to work with Linux on sda3????

In order for this to work, a Linux needs read-write support for NTFS at the boot stage. I doubt if the Dogs have that.

If sda3 has lots of space, run Gparted and split off a Linux ext partition.

This is a frugal install of BusterDog. I had a frugal instal on my last machine with a 'changes.dat' file inside 'live' and this did boot. On that machine I had two drives one was formatted ntfs for Win XP and the other for Ubuntu. I latter changed from a changes.dat file to a changes folder. The changes folder had to be on a linux partition and so I put it on the drive with Ubuntu. It did have the advantage that I did not have to set a size for the folder. I may well make an ext3 partition to store a save folder and perhaps other things latter but before I do that I need to get BusterDog to boot. I also find frugal instals very convenient.

Regards,

Ken.

[backi]

Hi Keniv !
Do yourself a favor and follow advice from rcrsn51.
Changes.dat FILE is not used so commonly .
Instead of using changes.dat FILE better use changes Folder (in live Folder) on a ext/2/3/4 Partition....... no need to resize ......does automatically adapt.
You likely will get better Support in case ....

[rcrsn51]

If you were using the stretch-live-frugal-install tool, all of these problems would go away.

[fredx181]

@keniv, if 32busterdog is parent folder of live, you need to change from=/ to from=/32busterdog
And the (hd0,2) in front of /32busterdog/live/vmlinuz1 is not needed since you have set root (hd0,2) already.

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title BusterDog (sda3/32busterdog)
root (hd0,2)
kernel /32busterdog/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/32busterdog changes=/mnt/sda3/32busterdog/live/changes.dat
initrd /32busterdog/live/initrd1.xz

Fred

[keniv]

@fredx181

Thanks again Fred. BusterDog now booting and I'm posting from it now.

@rcrsn51

If you were using the stretch-live-frugal-install tool, all of these problems would go away.

Have never used this but might give it a try.

@backi

Instead of using changes.dat FILE better use changes Folder

Yes I've used one before and did find it had an advantage over the save file. My big problem was not being able to boot it and thanks to Fred that's solved.

Regards,

Ken.

[mauros]

Edit:
@mauros

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As long as BusterDog is a puppy,

I know I have many correcting me. Well we are in "murga-linux.com/puppy" forum. Now the real question is: What is the real "Puppy Linux" definition?

I see MATE is a Desktop Environment. I guess I will stay with LXDE.

I'm too newbie to answer that question but i agree that its the real one.
If you feel comfortable with LXDE it's better to stay.

On the other hand, i think that desktops supporting display servers other than Xorg (i.e. wayland) are more promising (much simpler, easy for developers) and Qt graphical toolkit (as more promising than GTK), are the future.
At the moment, only KDE, GNOME and i3 supports seriously wayland.
Gnome and KDE are too heavy for a puppy or a live linux system in general, so i can see only i3 as a solution who can bring wayland to puppy.

A wayland puppy will be a "real puppy"? I don't know. I just know that dinosaurs became extinct because they couldn't adapt.

[enrique]

HEHEHEHE I know I am getting old and paranoid. It is the true. "..dinosaurs became extinct because they couldn't adapt..." Previously I was compared to a old toaster. Yes crazy and old. That I should be happy with, as it do not required software upgrades. Funny people in this forum.

@rcrsn51 & @fredx181. I know again thanks for remind me about: " I'd say better work with unique name" & use root (hd#,#) instead of UUID. This particular PC have no issue so it should work nice with "unique name" & use root (hd#,#), So I will definitely try that.

I am force to use UUID ONLY on my Laptop. See if I boot the laptop with any USB attach to it, the laptop will reorganize the drives line up. So a permanent root (hd#,#) do not work. Weird no! Thanks again good friends.

[fredx181]

*** Updated mklive-buster script ***
https://debiandog.github.io/MakeLive/mklive-buster

Fixed that it fails to download (and install) the debootstrap deb, and therefore the build will fail (except when you have version 1.0.89 already installed, see also below)

Note: The newest version of debootstrap (buster v1.0.114) creates a filesystem structure using usrmerge.
https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge
This usrmerge structure is not compatible with Buster Live or BusterDog.
So the version to use should be 1.0.89 (which creates "normal" filesystem structure)
http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/ma ... 89_all.deb
Btw, this is just for info, now mklive-buster will download and install the above package.

Fred

[enrique]

I will download new script and test it soon.

But as a report I originally downloaded mklive-buster on 28 November. I was running Puppy

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puppy_bionicpup64_8.0.sfs  
devx_bionicpup64_8.0.sfs

And I notice in Readme-build-busterdog.html that it read:

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The appimage has included e.g. yad, debootstrap, dpkg, xorriso (for creating ISO), so nothing extra is required to install. Tested on Tahrpup, Xenialpup, Dpup-Stretch, DebianDog, Fatdog (but on the latter I needed to install ‘perl’ first from gslapt).

So I did

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apt install yad debootstrap dpkg xorriso perl

I got no trouble building with mklive-buster in bionicpup64. I did notice that script downloaded and installed debootstrap_1.0.89-devuan2.1_all.deb.

For a week a test the same script. Day after day and it never produce a failure nor unknown new errors as I did have with woof-CE. That was my personal main reason to stick to ButerDog. I will see if I have time today. Will report.


Fred I did your suggested changes: root (hd0,8 ) and noauto that resolve all my issues on that PC. Thanks for you support.

Fred the next may be unrelated to BusterDog but as your solutions have been so useful I will like to ask you. I still having some trouble with pcmanfm on my laptop. When I use a program that uses temporary files, at the end of the process pcmanfm will still show the tmp files even when they do not exist anymore.
For example my download manager, it creates extra files. But If I reboot as expected those files no longer exist.

Another issue with pcmanfm is the Drive Icons in the side left panel of pcmanfm. I have a few drives double. Not All. See I have 10 available partition. This partitions show as Label (sd##) When mounted this 10 partition will mount in /mnt/sd##.

Now I have 5 partitions that will show below those but only as Label. And when mounted they mount in: /media/Label (sd##)

This is a harassment as 1rst the partition are double, then if I mistakenly use that to open then my programs fail to executes as they can not find the expected resources in /mnt.

Can you help me with this little problem?

[mauros]

HEHEHEHE I know I am getting old and paranoid. It is the true. "..dinosaurs became extinct because they couldn't adapt..." Previously I was compared to a old toaster. Yes crazy and old. That I should be happy with, as it do not required software upgrades. Funny people in this forum.

People getting older because they are able to adapt and survive. But when software is getting old, it's because there aren't good enough ideas to improve it. Different cases, don't you think?