(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Hi.

Since this is neither an request nor an announcement but an already existing application which could result in a new puppy related project, I did decide to post this in this here forum, Puppy Projects.

Ok.

This new concept of an application-starter has come to me while thinking about option to use my LazY Puppy RunScripts from outside the running OS and also in other puppies without to install the SFS P.L.U.S. package. Also I thought about an option to have only one single icon on my several categorized VarioMenu-Desktops which would offer all available programs of this category like Graphics, Audio etc.pp. - since the VarioMenu is getting really slow when having more than 20 icons on the desktop.

So I felt in Love with the idea of using a RoxApp as a Desktop-based Application-Starter.

Is there anyone here -except sunburnt- who knows what a RoxApp is?

Please do a right-click onto /usr/local/apps/Wallpaper -if available- or do a right-click onto the desktop's connect icon. It should offer a selection of options from the RoxApp. This is the mean thing, I don't want to get too much into details, but there are lots of possibilities.

The idea is to have such a right-click menu available containing each and every program related to the category which could be executed from the right-click menu. Left-click will execute the defaultxxx script from /usr/local/bin.

So, for example, the desktop's write icon will launch the default word processor by left-click and will offering all installed word processor applications by right-click to be launched immediately.

For sure, by having a look into the needed files to create such RoxApp application-starter programs, will make clear: this would be a lot of work to do - if done mnaually - or would need to have a really smart application, that would be able to create such RioxApp programs automatically just by analyzing the .desktop files (or even the SFS P.L.U.S. RunScripts or maybe even more to come).

Ladies and Gentlemen, believe it or don't believe it:

I did create exactly such needed application. It analyzes the .desktop files or my available RunScripts and creates automatically a full featured RoxApp with all available programs sorted in categories.

It took 4 Minutes and 3 Seconds to build a full featured RoxApp containing categorized entries of 527 SFS P.L.U.S. RunScripts. It can create a RoxApp for all categories found or just a single category or even combinations of those found categories. It doesn't produce doubled entries inside the menu and all testing did result successfully.

The created AppInfo.xml file contains 2965 lines of xml code. The created AppRun script contains 2314 lines of bash script code - even though the right-click menu comes up really quick. Currently I'm working to give also a options menu to the created RoxApp to make the created RoxApp able to updtae/re-create itself after new program of the category is installed.

I have attached some images at the end of this post.

So, not only the world has changed, also the puppy world seems to has changed - by having a look at the forum for the last weeks and reading some posts like "Saw Zimmerman..." etc.pp.

This application, the RoxApp Builder, is already in use here and still under development. I'm convinced of its concept and the RoxApp application-starter concept in general, but I don't want to publish only the DE version - which is the only version available at the moment. Which again leads me to another idea relating to things happened on the forum within the last weeks and months - like: the ArchPup threads; threads about having sfs files for window managers / desktops; never ending discussions and differences about 'doesn't look nice' and 'functionality matters'; off-topc stuff like 'pic of the day' or the 'please don't post about Snowden' thread including some of my own postings on some of these days.

But, of course, there are members on the forum, owning a strange pleasure to search and to find peoples 'buttons' and the to push these 'peoples-buttons' over and over again and to use reactions and responses of those 'button-pushed' peoples as an argument for 'legalizing' and continuing their 'button-push' actions - yes guys, you are right and we are wrong.

So, I want to find out, if the Puppy Community has somehow split irreversible, is somehow disgusted and still somehow unable to really work together or if it is still able to push a remarkable idea and the beginning of a obviously very very useful application up to a successfully into new puppies integrated high level tool!

Ok, Ladies and Gentlemen. Let's face the facts!

What do you think about the RoxApp Builder and the RoxApp Application-Starter concept?

What would you personally do (some work like translations or a useful sub-script for a function I didn't thought about etc.) to have the RoxApp Builder available for the Puppy Community?

What would you give away (like to make a donation to playdayz or the guy who is still working on aufs etc.pp.) to have the RoxApp Builder available for the Puppy Community?

Get creative and post your ideas, to turn me into the official developer for this then official puppy community tool - otherwise I will keep it private, unfortunately for the Puppy Community, but not for me.

RSH

I'm all for the idea of ROX-apps. Here's one I'd like to see: play an encrypted Blu-Ray disk. No fancy GUI, just put the Blu-Ray movie in the Blu-Ray drive and start the appropriate ROX-app. Maybe be able to use the menu on the Blu-Ray disk, if one exists.

Hi RSH,

Nice to hear from you again

I'm all for this too anything to help the end user be more comfortable using Puppy which is the best OS out there

I am also currently looking at doing an app launcher myself. Thinking about using something that stu90 did awhile back its done with yad.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 70&t=65011

If I can help I will just not sure how to do Rox-apps

R-S-H wrote: What do you think about the RoxApp Builder and the RoxApp Application-Starter concept?

I do not know enough about the technical side to fully understand, but I have watched your (and sunburnts) comments and the idea sounds exciting and a good way to improve the longevity of a new puppy.

What would you personally do (some work like translations or a useful sub-script for a function I didn't thought about etc.) to have the RoxApp Builder available for the Puppy Community?

I would try to do something...(not very good in the skills department...). Definitely testing.

What would you give away (like to make a donation to playdayz or the guy who is still working on aufs etc.pp.) to have the RoxApp Builder available for the Puppy Community?

I'd probably make a donation as soon as I saw a puppy coming together with a reasonable degree of unity amongst developers. (not much point donating if there is discord eg: recent comments seen on the "Archpup" threads)

And oh yes... it needs to have an english version 'cos my German is not good

Ok People.

First thanks for the replies.

Flash wrote:I'd like to see: play an encrypted Blu-Ray disk.

Yes, this would be a good idea. Also for some Audio applications and/or Graphics programs.

But this is not possible with the RoxApp Builder - more down below

oldyeller wrote:Nice to hear from you again

Thank you very much!

I'm still at work (only DE, getting more done in less time and lots of ideas)

oldyeller wrote:I'm all for this too anything to help the end user be more comfortable using Puppy which is the best OS out there

Yes, ahm NO!

LazY Puppy IS!

oldyeller wrote:I am also currently looking at doing an app launcher myself. Thinking about using something that stu90 did awhile back its done with yad.

Yes, I do know this little application starter by stu90. Some of his yad-scripts have been inspiring me a lot. Though, I don't like yad very much...

But, hey, forget about all the other application starter (they might be just blown away) and save your time to work on other things.

This one here is not a script...

It isn't even a program or application...

This is a DREAM !

But first: this one is NOT supposed to turn .tar.gz, .pet, .deb, .sfs or any other application package into a RoxApp. This would be another dream, brought out by another developer.

So, did anyone ever saw a dream become real ?

Right here and right now, everyone can see a DREAM become REAL

I am now offering to you a DREAM!

Imagine a nice clean desktop with only one icon on it.
The Rox filer icon.
Left click opens the Rox filer.
Right-click gives menu containing all applications that are usual on the puppy desktop.

Imagine a 'write' icon on the desktop.
Left-click runs defaultwordprocessor.
Right-click offers all installed word processors and if you like, also the text editors etc.pp.

Imagine a Rox filer icon on the desktop
Left click opens the Rox filer.
Right-click gives menu with all installed applications, sorted in up to 16 main categories (you can name them as your like)

Imagine 30 Openbox desktops (like I do have over here).
All with just one icon on it.
Related to the desktops application category (like audio, video, graphics, office etc.pp).
Left-click runs the favorite application of the category.
Right-click gives menu with all installed applications related to the desktops category

Imagine, just doing one click onto the RoxApp Builder's 'Apply' button.
Imagine it builds automatically a RoxApp Frame, ready to create a RoxApp from scratch.

All this can be done with the RoxApp Builder!

Some hard facts:

- it can create different types of RoxApps - RoxApp-Type Application-Starters

- - - for all applications installed in the OS, or
- - - for all SFS P.L.U.S. (> 3.x.x) RunScrpts available in the OS (or another directory), or
- - - for all applications installed in the OS
- - - - except those files that are leading to a SFS P.L.U.S. RunScript

- - this will be done full automatically sorted into main categories

- it can create different types of RoxApps - RoxApp-Type Application-Starters

- - - for all applications installed in the OS, or
- - - for all SFS P.L.U.S. (> 3.x.x) RunScrpts available in the OS (or another directory), or
- - - for all applications installed in the OS
- - - - except those files that are leading to a SFS P.L.U.S. RunScript

- - this can be done also full automatically for a single or several sub-categories
- - - which means: the GUI gives to you a copy of /etc/xdg/menus/hierarchy with ',' replaced by ' '
- - - so, one can build a RoxApp Application-Starter just for text editors

- each RoxApp Application-Starter created with the RoxApp Builder is able to update itself
- - - just click the entry on top of the right-click menu and it will rebuild itself
- - - so, if new programs are installed, of category used when creating the Application-Starter
- - - they will appear in the menu after the RoxApp has rebuild itself
- - - - - currently this needs the RoxApp Builder already installed (which is a RoxApp itself)

- automatically generating XML code for DE and EN
- one more language can be set to be included into the XML code also
- - - it falls back to EN if no data was found

- option to freely define a script to run when doing a left-click onto the RoxApp Application-Starter directory
- can build automatically a RoxApp Frame, ready to create a RoxApp from scratch for your own purposes

Next Stop:

- Batch function to update all installed RoxApp Application-Starters from within the RoxApp Builder
- - - if possible, give this function directly to each created RoxApp Application-Starter

I have attached some new images of the DREAM become REAL at the end of this post!

So, People. Thanks again for the replies.

Use your imaginations, Ladies and Gentlemen, and DREAM on of its possibilities... ... ...

And, of course, I'm sure: this is is worth some (much) more.

RSH

EDIT:

greengeek wrote:And oh yes... it needs to have an english version 'cos my German is not good

This depends on what will be translated by forum members after posting my DE locales. It would need translation to EN first, which, of course, would be a better base for all the rest that might come back.

Hi.

Almost everything is now finished.

There are some new functions and options added like:

- creating a RoxApp by analysis of /root/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin

- Option to use exclusion criteria
- - - searching for 'Video' will find also 'AudioVideo'
- - - using 'AudioVideo' as an exclusion criteria will now find only 'Video'

- Option to enter description for the RoxApp
- - - shows up as a ToolTip when mouse cursor is placed over the RoxAppdirectory

I have added some new images here.

These images showing several desktops with the new RoxApps added and RoxApp Menus opened.

Note: the colored wallpapers are not especially added for the screenshots. These wallpapers are automatically switched by VarioMenu when activating a new VarioMenu-Group (categorized selection of desktop icons).

Since I'm currently developing only in DE it needs some more work to do, because I'm typing the German language directly into the GtkDialog GUI Code (like most of the English developers do it in English language).

This means: I would have to extract those German language text from the GtkDialog GUI Code into a separated file. This would be a lot of work to do and also take a big amount of time.

So, I did decide to extract this German language text, when it is ensured that a person has been found to translate this into English language.

So, if anyone is ready and willing to do the translations from DE to EN, please post here or do send me a PM.

Thanks,

RSH

Hi.

I'm sorry to say this, but no replies so far and obviously no one is able or interested to do some translations for this here from German to English language?

So, this will not become a puppy project then...

Never mind.

I'm still happy to have that tool and to be able to use that tool - since it is really smart!

RSH

Hi.

Flash wrote:I'm all for the idea of ROX-apps. Here's one I'd like to see: play an encrypted Blu-Ray disk. No fancy GUI, just put the Blu-Ray movie in the Blu-Ray drive and start the appropriate ROX-app. Maybe be able to use the menu on the Blu-Ray disk, if one exists.

RSH - R-S-H wrote:This is a DREAM !

But first: this one is NOT supposed to turn .tar.gz, .pet, .deb, .sfs or any other application package into a RoxApp. This would be another dream, brought out by another developer.

So, did anyone ever saw a dream become real ?

Really, this is a Dream!

In the beginning of RoxApp Builder its concept was focused on building RoxApp-Type Application-Starters. This now works very well and stable. Meanwhile I did create almost all RoxApp Application-Starters I wanted to use.

Besides this I did some work on a manually created RoxApp of Gimp-2.6.12, which was partly successful. I've learned a lot from this and was able to include some of that work into my RoxApp Builder.

So, the RoxApp Builder now doesn't only create RoxApp-Type Application-Starters. It is now usable to create real RoxApps from existing SFS AND PET Files !!!

I have attached some new Images at the End of this Post!

Fist Image shows the new Tab inside the GUI to create RoxApps from SFS and PET.
Second Image shows some real RoxApps, created with the latest Version of RoxApp Builder.
All did work out of the box !!!

I did test a few more, that didn't work out of the box. These ones would need either manually editing, which means just add some files and/or directories to a list, to make symbolic Links of - or to refine the RoxApp Builder. That's what I'm now trying to work out.

RSH

P.S.

Still hoping to find someone who will do the translations from DE to EN for this one here...

Hi.

I have build and published three real RoxApps using my RoxApp Builder.

The RoxApps:
These are the RoxApps for ALSA Player and Aqualung Player
This is the RoxApp for Gimp 2.6.12

Download and extract the .tar.gz archives. Inside the created folders you'll find the RoxApp directories. Open them up by right-click and click on "look inside" or "show content" or similar and do copy the SFS files into its related RoxApp directory.

The SFS files for the RoxApps:
LP2_ALSAPlayer-0.99.81.sfs
LP2_Aqualung09b11.sfs
LP2_Gimp2612.sfs

If these programs would work in general in your puppy, they will work also now from RoxApp.

Note: test and/or use this only without your personal save file - I don't use any, so I don't care on possible issues related to the use of a save file.

This RoxApp Builder is a really smart application - by now!

RSH

Hi R-S-H,

I sense from your initial post some discouragement resulting from a Forum filled with confusion, disharmony and distracting noises. Take heart. There is a universal pattern: order self-evolves from chaos; order dissolves into chaos. On the human scale, studies have shown that while order is best for production, a chaotic environment is far more conducive to creativity and the emergence of a new order.

I think an immediate problem may be the name, "RoxApp". I'm not sure I've every used one. I'm not sure I haven't. After googling RoxApps, it appears that their fundamental characteristics are that they are (a) applications entirely contained --libs, desktop files, and all-- within a folder which can be located anywhere and (b) linked to the rest of the system by calling a script within the OS (or perhaps by clicking the folder itself, if the OS recognizes such action). If this is correct, I've been using them for years under the name playdaz gave them "Program Folders" (even though, AFAIK, he still doesn't like that name). And if they can be started by clicking the folder, they are a something like portable apps, which I've also occasionally used. The thing is, Program Folders can be run from any Puppy, even if Rox isn't its file-manager; while Portable Apps --not being Puppy specific-- almost always expect a "ubuntu" environment, which translated means a Pup built from Ubuntu binaries]. Both Portable Apps and Program Folders are "external

" I sense from your initial post some discouragement resulting from a Forum filled with confusion, disharmony and distracting noises. "

::::::

He's onto me RSH.

What I believe is happening is that the new brood of newcomers here
have mostly got their puppies up and running.... so we hardly see
them here any more.

In other times newer releases were being planned, betas released etc;
and the joint was jumping.

The problem therefore mate is that in some ways developers have
made their puppies too good.

I can't help out....out of my comfort area.

Just remember that when you're doing something wrong....
all the detractors appear....like me....

and when you've done well in a release.....nobody gives you praise,
including me....but at least I am consistent.

Hang in there RSH, and keep on developing...

Sometimes silence is a good thing.

Cheers....Chris.

Hi.

Now it's time to return to this, but first some quotes:

cthisbear wrote:Just remember that when you're doing something wrong....
all the detractors appear....like me....

Never mind...

I'm really not that kind of guy, who is carrying such on my back for the rest of my life (sometimes I live for that).

Hang in there RSH

I'm still here and even though I announce it from time to time, I won't go/leave for real.

What I believe is happening is that the new brood of newcomers here
have mostly got their puppies up and running.... so we hardly see
them here any more.

Human Nature - as usual...

mikeslr wrote:I sense from your initial post some discouragement resulting from a Forum filled with confusion, disharmony and distracting noises.

Exactly!

As I've stated above: I'm really not that kind of guy, who is carrying such on my back for the rest of my life. So, never mind.

I think an immediate problem may be the name, "RoxApp". I'm not sure I've every used one. I'm not sure I haven't. After googling RoxApps, it appears that their fundamental characteristics are that they are (a) applications entirely contained --libs, desktop files, and all-- within a folder which can be located anywhere and (b) linked to the rest of the system by calling a script within the OS (or perhaps by clicking the folder itself, if the OS recognizes such action). If this is correct, I've been using them for years under the name playdaz gave them "Program Folders" (even though, AFAIK, he still doesn't like that name). And if they can be started by clicking the folder, they are a something like portable apps, which I've also occasionally used. The thing is, Program Folders can be run from any Puppy, even if Rox isn't its file-manager; while Portable Apps --not being Puppy specific-- almost always expect a "ubuntu" environment, which translated means a Pup built from Ubuntu binaries]. Both Portable Apps and Program Folders are "external

A while back, the developer of magic ermine gave me a license to use for building open source standalone apps similar to rox apps, but portable to non-rox environments. She also wrote statifier (to include shared libs in a binary), but ermine goes a step further and includes support files using a builtin virtual file system. You should check it out.

technosaurus wrote:A while back, the developer of magic ermine gave me a license to use for building open source standalone apps similar to rox apps, but portable to non-rox environments. She also wrote statifier (to include shared libs in a binary), but ermine goes a step further and includes support files using a builtin virtual file system. You should check it out.

This sounds interesting.

Do you have a link?

It seems there is an alternative now:
http://portablelinuxapps.org/docs/1.0/AppImageKit.pdf

Hi @Technosaurus

This reads well and appears straight-forward.

• Could a general purpose Window or Dialogue utility be presented which would make simple to make an app for either system installation or desktop invocation?
• Further if this type of utility were a PET, it could slip easily into WOOF such that distro developers could include?
• Is it possible that a general purpose for AppImage setup has already been done somewhere?
• What would be a drawback to an adoption? ... habit, maybe.

Thanks for showing this.

AppImage is fairly old and provides a uniform implementation as a self-extracting, self-mounting iso9660 image. AppImageKit is an interface for creating AppImage files.

One drawback to using AppImage's instead of 'plain' AppDir's is that the delivered file is an arch-dependent binary file -so even if the content is simply shell-script wrappers, it winds up as a binary.

Since I don't have access anymore to my old RSH account and therefor I'm unable to change the topics title to 'discontinued', I'm going to post here:

THIS IS NOW DISCONTINUED AND NOT SUPPORTED ANYMORE!

All my work done is by now combined and continued into T.O.P.L.E.S.S.