What is Puppy official responce?

[enrique]

This belong to Puppy. But as it is a weird question I will place it in off topic.

After answer you can delete it if you feel it is out of place. But please answer.

What is Puppy official response for a software app/solution where there is no pet or current pet is not up to date?

I ask this because I constantly respond to go a search/get from main Ubuntu repos. In any case why not if in fact PPM has been set up with main repos.

Truce is that responces from others make me feel I am not following official procedure. I just saw this post from Mike Walsh

...My other main concern is that by tying Puppy into all the mainstream distros repositories, it's surely another nail in the coffin of Puppy's uniqueness, no? I mean, to me, if ya like the mainstream distros so much, then run the damn things instead.....

(Don't forget, using packages from the mainstream distros repos usually ends up with an extended lib-chase.....or has Scotty got this whole thing down "pat" by now, so it's all to Pup's benefit?)


Mike.

So question is:

It is correct or not to suggest to use packages from the mainstream distros repos?

Thanks ahead,
enrique

PD:
On Debian dogs we do all the time use a mixture of Official Debian, famous rcrsn51's Peasy and pets.

[perdido]

If you don't use the packages from the mainstream distros then there are no packages to use. Puppy is made of packages from mainstream distros tied together with puppy scripts.

There are no puppy specific distro packages except the scripts and then what programs the developer compiles
and includes in the repository for that version of puppy. Usually some standard linux stuff.

Some people create puppy-specific pet packages from the mainstream distros and post them into the forum.

Some people compile programs in puppy from source code from various sources and post the compiled program in the forum as a pet or sfs

There is no exact answer to your question, puppy packages come from everywhere, even outer space! Not wrong to suggest looking in outer space, there are no rules where to look. Since there are no rules then all answers are correct.

.

[Burn_IT]

Like all things though, the integrity of the source needs to be considered.

[enrique]

perdido
Your answer reflects my own opinion. In general, applications can come from any source, in particular none Puppy distros main repositories. We have volunteers creating pets.

This is important to me but I do not find the correct words. Please allow me to use an example.

We have many post here on REAL Window Users that want to have Puppy but control it under Windows environment. So they try MS RDP or its equivalent in Linux "XRDP". From past posts it seems there is no up to date xrdp pet package.

I did once offered to subtitude XRDP solution by the use of Linux basic one Secure Shell (SSH) in general its GUI version ssh X. To use this Linux basic mechanism, you need to install some packages from external main distro repositories, in this case Ubuntu. At the time I offered solution I felt I was been push a side. From ignore, people jumping to offered broken XRDP packages to direct comment like "Are you committed to doing this in Bionic Puppy?"

There are many other occasions where this happens. But take the previews example, the Linux way requires to install packages from Ubuntu. So to prevent any more future incidents I decided to ask.

It is ok to offer newbies as advise to use their PPM to download basic packages from other repos like Ubuntu?

[perdido]

It is ok to offer newbies as advise to use their PPM to download basic packages from other repos like Ubuntu?

Yes.

The least complicated way to resolve the problem should be suggested. Least complicated also means different things to different people
More complications arise when multiple replies suggest different answers. Too much help can be confusing.

The Puppy Package Manager is usually the method suggested when new users of puppy are looking for a specific program. Web browsers would be the exception to that.
The PPM is not intuitive even if new users know what it is for. There is no manual to read. Questions get asked.

Puppy cannot rely only on PPM installing packages from main distros. Using only PPM and main distros can break puppy. More questions get asked

.

[bigpup]

Welcome to the world of Linux software!

Linux software has to be compiled for the Linux OS it is going to be installed on.
Why?
Because all software needs to use other Linux core files and programs. Compiling puts it all together using what the specific Linux OS has.

Example:
The software is going to use GTK.
What versions are in the Linux OS?
Is it the GTK version the program is absolutely got to have or can it use several different GTK versions?
If the correct GTK is not installed. Now it is a needed dependency, that also needs installed.

Puppy pet packages are not perfect.
If the pet was compiled on a specific Puppy version.
It may or may not work on other Puppy versions.
However, luckily, most do work on a lot of Puppy versions, but not all.

PPM is about the best for a new user to use for installing programs. The repositories, it usually has for places to search for software, show stuff that was compiled using the same compatible Linux core files and programs and PPM does do a good job of also installing dependency stuff, not in the Puppy version.

deb packages work OK a lot of the time.
Usually ones compiled for Debian or Ubuntu.
Slacko based Puppies, best to use it's PPM.
But you do need to try and use a deb package, compiled for another Linux OS, that is similar to the Puppy version.
Usually using same core Linux files and programs.
Usually a Linux OS released around the same time as the Puppy version
Good place to get deb packages:
https://pkgs.org/
However, there could be dependency stuff, the deb package may need, that you will have to look for and also install.
Again, these deb packages were not specifically compiled for a specific version of Puppy.

There are people trying to come up with a universal way to package programs, that will just work in any Linux OS.
Flatpak Snaps
AppImage
There are topics in the forum about using these.

[Mike Walsh]

@ enrique:-

I wouldn't read too much into that statement of mine that you quoted in your first post. I may have allowed some of my annoyance from another forum 'bleed over' into this one.....and such is not good practice.

Many of the other respondents to this thread have fairly summed it up.....primarily, that Puppy gets its packages from all over the place. The PPM packages from whatever 'parent' that version of Puppy is based around is a good place to start, I agree. But Puppy is a real 'melting-pot' of applications from just about anywhere you can think of....

I'd been trying to explain this point to somebody over at LQ.org the evening I posted what you quoted. That person was adamant that you should only EVER use packages from an OS' native repositories.....and NOWHERE else, otherwise you risked breaking your OS. Oh sure, it makes for a very stable, 'safe' experience.....but it also makes for a rather boring one, too. Especially given that so many applications are beginning to be packed in formats that never make it anywhere near the 'official' repos....

And yes, as bigpup has pointed out, never think only in terms of packaging formats native to any specific distro. If that were the case, only .debs would ever work in Ubuntu or Debian Pups, only .tgz or .txz would only ever work in Slackware Puppies. But .pets will work in all, and I've successfully employed .debs in Slackware and .rpms in 'buntu-based Pups before now. In all cases, the actual contents are the same; the format differences are there to permit ease of operation with a given distro's package management set-up, since these are often coded slightly differently, and perhaps work in a different way.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Some of the easiest packages to modify for Puppy are those which are essentially self-contained, i.e., everything required for it to run is inside a single, common directory. Modifications usually boil down to adding a Menu entry, choosing an icon (often one is supplied), deciding whether to run as root or 'spot', maybe adding additional scripts for Puppy-specific issues, perhaps chasing up a few dependencies. Nothing major.

Many Puppy apps are script-only, making use of stuff already natively 'built-in' to Puppy. I've put a few of those together, too.

Then there's the current 'portable' format 'war'. Snaps, Flatpaks, AppImages, etc. I've consistently advocated the use of AppImages for us here in Puppyland, for the simple reason that they are by far & away the simplest to use. Simply make executable, and click-to-run. Sometimes they need arguments adding to get them to start' '--no-sandbox', '--allowroot', maybe 'run-as-spot' is required.....but it's usually easy to figure out. Take a look at the AppImages thread in 'Users (for the regulars)', and you'll soon see how many we've already got working.

Snaps and Flatpaks, on the other hand, require a whole additional layer of complication adding to the OS before they'll even condescend to install, much less run.....

----------------------------------------------------------------

It's an-going battle, Enrique. It's been happening since long before I joined this Forum, and I daresay it'll still be the case long after I leave. Just take heart from the fact that Puppy users, by & large, are a very inventive & resilient bunch of individuals. There's ways round everything; 'if man can invent it, man can circumvent it, too.'

Puppy will always have a good assortment of available software.


Mike.

[enrique]

UHHMM!

I am more confused. HEHEHEHEHE

I can conclude that most of you think the following way:
That PPM installation of packages outside of a prepared pet package CAN GO WRONG.

I can accept that comment 100%.

Still my question was not answer clearly. Regards Puppy, Should I offer help suggesting to installed packages from other distro like Ubuntu?

If I have to guess, it seems you guys prefer not to do so.

Now as for DebianDogs that is another story as our main source of packages are in fact deb from Debian repositories.

Thanks for you response
enrique

PD.
Moderators you can delete this thread if you feel it is necessary.

[Mike Walsh]

@ enrique:-

It is confusing, mate.....but it's one of Puppy's great advantages, and one of its great strengths, too.

As a 'hobbyist' system, and having the kind of membership we have, it means that there's always someone 'tinkering' around with something new, or a different way of doing things. It's never dull around here!

There's no reason at all why you shouldn't recommend trying the repositories. Some things from there often do work OOTB. Others need stuff hunting-down.....it's all part & parcel of running Puppy. And IMHO, it's great fun.....and often gives the old grey matter a darned good workout.


Mike.

[musher0]

Hello Enrique and all.

If the Puppy Package Manager of your Puppy is not offering you the application
you need ( but look there first and make sure it isn't listed )
the answer is:

>> The key is to look in a repository of the Linux your Puppy is based on. <<

If your Pup is based on Ubuntu (the upups), look in an Ubuntu repository,
e.g. https://packages.ubuntu.com;

if based on Debian (the dpups), look in a Debian repository,
e.g. https://debian.pkgs.org;

if based on slackware (the slackPups), look in a slackware repository,
e.g. https://slackware.pkgs.org.

If you feel a bit lazy, you may have luck browsing through the AppImages list.

If you're absolutely out of luck after going through the above, some RPM
packages may be usable in a Puppy. Perhaps with a headache, in the sense
that you may have to hunt down some missing libraries.
E.g., from http://rpm.pbone.net

>> The best solution of course is to build the app from scratch in your Puppy <<
-- load the devx from your Puppy (very important);
then
-- get the source of the app you want ( from the author's site is best )
-- unpack it on a Linux-compatible partition (also important)
and
-- compile it in your Puppy.

I hope this answers your question.

BFN.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
N.B. The URLs mentioned above are only to get you started. There are others
for each distro. Typing < "distro" repositories > in the Duck or StartPage
search engines will usually get you there.

[bigpup]

Again, welcome to the world of Linux software!

Windows software would be this complicated, if there was a bunch of different versions of Windows, being released, Like Linux OS's..
Well, try to use Windows 10 software running in Windows XP or Windows 7 or Vista.

[musher0]

Hello again, enrique.

https://pkgs.org is a good central to find Linux apps in Puppy. Just make sure
that you search in the appropriate section for your Pup.
E.g. if you need an app for BionicPup, choose the Bionic Beaver section in Ubuntu.
Also, double-check if the app is for 32-bit or 64-bit.

Finally, when you search for apps in the PPM, please keep in mind that the file names
in the list may be contracted. Some names of apps are not written out in full or have
letters missing. Sometimes, they're there, but you really have to focus to recognize them.

Again, IHTH.

[enrique]

Just in case I am not confuse on Linux.

I am trying to become less of the black sheep of the forum and be more part of the puppy dog pack.

I was starting to feel my suggestion on installing packages from Ubuntu was not been received. Then I saw mikes comment. So I decided to ask.

Now, I know I have big difference on how I feel about all sort of external manipulations from MS, Google, the kernel and secure boot. Most of you seems comfortable.

Regards https://pkgs.org I do use it to compare what different distro do for certain package. But not to find a package to install. Do not have knowledge on slackware. I know it have to be good as peebee seem to adopt it. But have no time for a new package/distro method. I been having fun making sure I do not use windows, so I been recompiling under Linux all my own programs that I may still used. I got a few programming project and not much time for all. When I get to a problem in programming, I do come to the forum to rest.

At my home there is only one Win10 laptop that a family member used for Nexflix. Anyway I love Puppy, I am glad I found it when I decided to move away from Win7, as Win7 it is reaching end of useful life. I will never allow Win10 to decide when I can used my PC. Or used my limited cellphone internet as they please. I mean I can do a long list.

Long live Puppy. Viva
enrique

[Mike Walsh]

@ enrique:-

You are aware that Netflix works fine in most browsers available for Linux, yes? It's one of those 'must-have' items for me, too, so I go out of my way to try & make sure it functions in all the browsers I re-package for Puppy.

There are exceptions to that rule - there always are! - namely, Iron and Palemoon. Iron, I've given up on getting Netflix functional; Widevine seems non-functional with it now (almost as though SRWare have broken it deliberately).....whereas with Palemoon, they've made it crystal clear that they have no intentions of ever supporting DRM, since they build it on the older Firefox code-base, where it never was supported.

Those where it does function include:-

Firefox - both mainline Quantum and the ESR releases
Chrome - naturally!
Vivaldi
Opera
Yandex
Cliqz - a privacy-oriented Firefox 'clone'

.....and doubtless others, too. Plenty of choices. Just my two-penn'orth, FWIW.


Mike.

[enrique]

I know.
One it is my sister laptop. She knows and understand about Win10 harassment. But she preferred to be conformist than using Linux. Is her choice.

Then the real truth behind. Low budget at home. Our Internet is cellphone. Acceptable speed but we have a cap limit then down to lower speed. We do then a lot of Nexflix downloading at out brother's home. He have nice full speed no limit cable internet. Movies are to be seen on future at home. So only option for official download Nexflix is Win10 Store, or Android Market.

And yes I get headache every time I see W10 doing its moves. From having to wait for an upgrade, to disabling my local intranet drives because some have old SMB. Do not even try to use your cellphone internet. No matters how you set that is metered, it will download its long updates consuming my data. And the constant messages screaming to hook the evil thing so that it can do its supposedly emergency updates. At the end the most modern & fastest PC at home and slow as a Turtle. I just do not understand Win10 users mentality.
PD
I secretly installed my Puppy on it. Just in case I have to use her laptop. She knows about Grub2 but have not decided her self to try the other menus. You know old people same routine..

[Burn_IT]

This makes you perhaps worse than Windows - secretly installing things on her laptop.

You should at least have the decency to tell her what you have done and why!!

[enrique]

HEHEHEHE

Just for correctness.
I am grateful to God that even when we are getting old I have wonderful family & extended family. We all care on each other. I will never do anything that can jeopardize my family.

Now about secretly.
She does not want to hear about Linux best capabilities. OHHHH!!! but the two times Win10 had got broken she knows and saw I have a second Linux partition that have been used to recover her broken Laptop. Imagine Win10 decided to get broken on the 9 month we where without Electrical Power after Hurricane Maria. Clearly it wanted to be really... really... upgraded, hehehehe to long of a period without upgrades. So she seen the advantage of a second OS. We did used it to watch satellite channels for 1 hour a day for 9 month, during time we use generators to charge our equipment. HAHAHA NO WIN10, it broke like miserable screaming for updates when that option was not available.

What she is unaware is that in 3 GB area I have now a Full copy of my working BusterDog OS all together with wine, office and all needed stuff. It is not longer just a secondary recovery mechanism but a full working OS.

We share, she used to use my PC with the nice 28 in screen. But she sadly had stop as no windows is now available on my Laptop hook to the screen.

[disciple]

This makes you perhaps worse than Windows - secretly installing things on her laptop.

Doesn't Windows do that all the time? To be as bad as Windows you'd also at least need to break things on a regular basis (preferably deleting all her files occasionally), spy on her, make the computer regularly unuseable while doing massive updates, and force reboots at the worst possible moment

[Burn_IT]

No it doesn't
Updates are scheduled and occur at a known time.
The only time files have been deleted was where people had manually adjusted the file structure and used reserved elements for personal stuff.
Windows does not spy on anyone any more than your Linux OS does.
It may be that some of the applications (like Google for example) do, but they do so under Linux as well.
I have been using both Windows and Linux for many years and the only time unexpected reboots for either and both have occurred is when bad data or poor programming have caused them.

[disciple]

Well I'm glad to hear someone has only had good experiences with Windows updates, but I think you should consider yourself lucky if you haven't even been afflicted by a badly timed forced reboot.

The only time files have been deleted was where people had manually adjusted the file structure and used reserved elements for personal stuff.

It sounds like you are vaguely familiar with the most prominent of what IIRC were THREE major bugs included in a single update deleting users files, but you have either misunderstood or misrepresented it, and you write as if the users were to blame, which in my mind is a serious libel.
Windows lets you configure the location of your Documents folder. It is a feature. People who had configured it to be elsewhere (likely on another drive because they needed more space); had anything still in the default location silently and without warning deleted by that update (if it needed the space IIRC). There is simply no excuse for doing something like that.
I've never changed the location of the Documents folder, but I'm fairly certain that when I've changed the location of the Videos folder etc that Windows asked me whether or not I wanted to move the files as well. So even Microsoft themselves anticipated that people would not always move the files. And if they expected to be stupid enough to delete them with a Windows update they would have strongly encouraged people to rename the folder or something.