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Is there interest in an Arch32 Pup???
Posted: Wed 01 Jan 2020, 17:40
by darry19662018
Hi Peebee and Devs and Puppians,
Just a question going forward with 32bit support diminishing somewhat - would this be a tenable solution to 32bit support?????
https://archlinux32.org/
Above is the website for continued work on Arch 32bit.
Posted: Wed 01 Jan 2020, 18:03
by s243a
If someone makes it then I might give it a try. I think that with sc0ttman's package manage (
i.e. pkg), it is feasible, given that pkg has butter support for
updating packages.
However, as an alternative to a rolling release we could take a snapshot of the arch's repos and mirror it.
Posted: Wed 01 Jan 2020, 19:04
by s243a
Posted: Wed 01 Jan 2020, 19:54
by darry19662018
Wow didn't know about the Manjaro 32 bit - I too would be in testing any releases.
As for Package - yes please.
This would be a long-term 32bit support answer.
Posted: Wed 01 Jan 2020, 21:16
by peebee
I already use the Arch32 repos fairly regularly - e.g. for Qt-5 and LXQt
There is code in the Legacy branch on GitHub Woof-CE to convert the Arch package databases into the Woof-CE "standard" format.....not sure if this is needed for pkg?
However if I were to vote for 32-bit longevity I think that Slackware is probably the most likely to stick around longest.....
And I'm not clear what user advantage there would be from an Arch32/Manjaro32 based system compared to a Slackware32 based system?
i.e. Are the repos bigger or smaller for user oriented apps?
Posted: Wed 01 Jan 2020, 21:44
by s243a
peebee wrote:I already use the Arch32 repos fairly regularly - e.g. for Qt-5 and LXQt
There is code in the Legacy branch on GitHub Woof-CE to convert the Arch package databases into the Woof-CE "standard" format.....not sure if this is needed for pkg?
Please provide a link to the specific code (preferable by line number). It would be helpful in the avent that pkg doesn't support arch repos. Not sure whether or not pkg supports these repos or not.
However if I were to vote for 32-bit longevity I think that Slackware is probably the most likely to stick around longest.....
That may be true -- I don't know -- but part of puppy is about experimenting. Choice is always good especially when people come from other distros and they have their favourite mainstream distros. This doesn't mean that we need to build an arch32/Manjaro32 if we have a slackware32 that one can use as an alternative. However, if someone does create one, I'm sure that others will try it
.
And I'm not clear what user advantage there would be from an Arch32/Manjaro32 based system compared to a Slackware32 based system?
i.e. Are the repos bigger or smaller for user oriented apps?
My impression is that Slackware libraries tend to not be as current as some distros. Depending on your perspective this may or may not be a good thing. Certainly, though the rolling releases will be more up-to-date and pkg makes working with rolling repos, more feasible.
Anyway, aside from my impressions, here are some concreate reasons from the arch wiki:
Arch Linux provides many thousands of binary packages within its official repositories, whereas Slackware official repositories are more modest.
Arch offers the Arch Build System, an actual ports-like system and also the AUR, a very large collection of PKGBUILDs contributed by users. Slackware offers a similar, though slimmer system at slackbuilds.org which is a semi-official repository of Slackbuilds, which are analogous to Arch PKGBUILDs. Slackware users will generally be quite comfortable with most aspects of Arch.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ar ... tributions
Also, I'm not saying that wee need an "archpup". I'm just staying that if someone makes it then I might try it.
Posted: Wed 01 Jan 2020, 22:15
by peebee
Posted: Wed 01 Jan 2020, 22:34
by s243a
Thankyou for the link peebe. I like that the arch coversion code is awk based
. BTW, on github you can link to an exact line number by left clicking on the line number, left-clicking where the three dots apear and then by selecting "copy link". For this code it gives:
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... setup#L224
**although the downside here is that we are linking to a specific commit rather than a branch.
So on pkg, we have ppa2pup to convert deb/ubuntu repos and slack2pup to convert slackware repos. If there isn't already, I would like to add a similar function called arch2pup (mabe called arch2pup_gawk) if gawk is required.
To make this fully integrated with the arch system, pkg should read which third party repos to include the same way that pacman does. Reading arch wiki, I think the repo name is given in brackects in /etc/pacman.conf e.g.:
Code: Select all
[gnome-unstable]
Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist
Followed by the file, that says where the mirrors for the repo can be found.
Posted: Wed 01 Jan 2020, 23:57
by norgo
Hi,
very interesting topic.
Arch linux is a very lightweight and quick distribution no doubt
but
it's a rolling release and that's why not suited in my opinion.
Stable versions of applications becomes replaced by bleeding edge versions (often alpha status).
The former stable version becomes deleted from server.
Because of permanently change/adaptation of dependencies/libs it's problematic to offer (long time working) applications.
I tested extensively Arch32, Arch64, (i686, x86_64, arm) with LXQt
The only version I'm still using is the 32 bit ARM version ( RaspberryPi 3+ )
As already stated, very lightweight and fast system but I don't like to work with alpha status applications.
I also tested Manjaro and have to say an absolutely disaster.
Example: Manjaro detect the packet manager as an orphaned packages and want to delete it
or replacing the kernel by another kernel version without to write the new configuration ...
I afraid arch linux is no good choice (unfortunately)
Posted: Thu 02 Jan 2020, 00:17
by s243a
norgo wrote:Hi,
very interesting topic.
Arch linux is a very lightweight and quick distribution no doubt
but
it's a rolling release and that's why not suited in my opinion.
Stable versions of applications becomes replaced by bleeding edge versions (often alpha status).
The former stable version becomes deleted from server.
Because of permanently change/adaptation of dependencies/libs it's problematic to offer (long time working) applications.
I tested extensively Arch32, Arch64, (i686, x86_64, arm) with LXQt
The only version I'm still using is the 32 bit ARM version ( RaspberryPi 3+ )
As already stated, very lightweight and fast system but I don't like to work with alpha status applications.
As noted above, we can use the stable Manjaro as the principle repos and only use the rolling-release arch repos as fallbacks. That said, some people like this bleeding edge rolling release stuff. If they didn't than arch wouldn't be a thing.
I also tested Manjaro and have to say an absolutely disaster.
Example: Manjaro detect the packet manager as an orphaned packages and want to delete it
or replacing the kernel by another kernel version without to write the new configuration ...
That won't be a problem with pkg because, pkg doesn't have any code to automatically delete "orphaned packages", and pkg doesn't have any code to automatically update the kernal....we can ask sc0ttmann, to verify these two claims of mine, since I'm going a bit on presumption here.
I afraid arch linux is no good choice (unfortunately)
That is a matter of opinion.
Posted: Thu 02 Jan 2020, 00:51
by sc0ttman
No at the moment Pkg does not contain that code..
Though it looks like it could be moved into a /usr/sbin/arch2pup script,
so it would be inline/consistent with how Pkg handles other repo types..
I've made a mental note to steal that code .. Cheers.
We'd also need to add some extra code for packing/unpacking Arch packages, plus some
pre/post install script handling stuff for Arch packages, but then Pkg should handle arch
packages OK.. Not too much. most of it is already there..
I already used Pkg to install some Arch packages in Dpup Stretch a while ago (mednafen and snes-9xgtk)...
both worked fine
---
Pkg doesn't have any code to automatically delete "orphaned packages", and Pkg doesn't have any code to automatically update the kernal.
correct
Posted: Thu 02 Jan 2020, 04:24
by musher0
Making a note of this:
https://manjaro32.org
Thanks, s243a and all!
Yes, this would be an interesting project. Plus it would shut up those who claim that Puppy
has become mostly an ubuntu farm club!
BFN.
Re: Is there interest in an Arch32 Pup???
Posted: Thu 02 Jan 2020, 15:12
by Moose On The Loose
darry19662018 wrote:Hi Peebee and Devs and Puppians,
Just a question going forward with 32bit support diminishing somewhat - would this be a tenable solution to 32bit support?????
https://archlinux32.org/
Above is the website for continued work on Arch 32bit.
At some point I may have to migrate off Puppy-528 so I may be interested.
I have a little netbook I like to keep working just like may main machine. So far I have been able to but it doesn't have a 64 bit CPU.
I am hearing that Linux based devices and phones will be coming on the market this year. This may be the option to change what my little device is.
Posted: Fri 03 Jan 2020, 17:39
by darry19662018
norgo wrote:Hi,
very interesting topic.
Arch linux is a very lightweight and quick distribution no doubt
but
it's a rolling release and that's why not suited in my opinion.
Stable versions of applications becomes replaced by bleeding edge versions (often alpha status).
The former stable version becomes deleted from server.
Because of permanently change/adaptation of dependencies/libs it's problematic to offer (long time working) applications.
I tested extensively Arch32, Arch64, (i686, x86_64, arm) with LXQt
The only version I'm still using is the 32 bit ARM version ( RaspberryPi 3+ )
As already stated, very lightweight and fast system but I don't like to work with alpha status applications.
I also tested Manjaro and have to say an absolutely disaster.
Example: Manjaro detect the packet manager as an orphaned packages and want to delete it
or replacing the kernel by another kernel version without to write the new configuration ...
I afraid arch linux is no good choice (unfortunately)
Well Archpup used to be a thing so is not a new idea so can't see why it can't be in the mix again.
Yes please
Posted: Wed 22 Jan 2020, 14:34
by Fridge
I would be interested in any of these base OSes.... Arch, Manjaro, 32 or 64 bit pups.
Stable or rolling... it doesn't matter to me, as long as it's relatively current. Something newer than ArchPup or AlphaOS, for sure.
Arch32Pup-20.02
Posted: Sun 02 Feb 2020, 15:19
by peebee
Working: Wifi, browser, Abiword, Gnumeric
Not working: PPM, DVD play, Samba etc. etc. etc.
PM for download link if you can help sort out problems.
Posted: Tue 04 Feb 2020, 05:56
by Lobster
Bravo @peebee
Alpha testing or better still pre-alpha testing is the way to learn and gain linux/penguin know how.
Sadly I no longer have the inclination being an end user of others hard won efforts
Arch linux is good. Puppy is great. New breeding program? Woof, woof! Good luck
ARCH Puppy Linux. If it is possible. It is Puppy.
Re: Arch32Pup-20.02
Posted: Tue 04 Feb 2020, 06:11
by musher0
peebee wrote:Working: Wifi, browser, Abiword, Gnumeric, PPM (but not database update)
Not working: Sound, Cups, Gparted, Ffmpeg, Mplayer, Samba etc. etc. etc.
PM for download link if you can help sort out Sound in particular.
Hi peebee.
I see you've been busy!
Does an audio file play through ffplay? (If this Pup has ffplay, of course.)
In any case, please send me the download URL?
I'm not promising anything, but I'd like to try it.
TIA.
BFN.
Re: Arch32Pup-20.02
Posted: Tue 04 Feb 2020, 11:46
by s243a
musher0 wrote:peebee wrote:Working: Wifi, browser, Abiword, Gnumeric, PPM (but not database update)
Not working: Sound, Cups, Gparted, Ffmpeg, Mplayer, Samba etc. etc. etc.
PM for download link if you can help sort out Sound in particular.
Hi peebee.
I see you've been busy!
Does an audio file play through ffplay? (If this Pup has ffplay, of course.)
In any case, please send me the download URL?
I'm not promising anything, but I'd like to try it.
TIA.
BFN.
I would also be interested in a link. I also can't promise anything. I don't like the PM system on this forums because my inbox and outbox get filled up too fast!
Posted: Wed 05 Feb 2020, 19:03
by darry19662018
I am interested and PM'd you.