Puppy 4.2 Deep Thought Development

[WhoDo]

@WhoDo have a look at the image, to get the dropdown box, click on the murga icon in the right hand corner search-box

Hmmmm...don't seem to have that LiveHelp on my personal toolbar. Maybe I deleted it when I was setting up all my Puppy links. Can I get it back without reinstalling? Good news is that clicking on the Google icon in the search box brings up the customised search engines include Murga Forum.

[ttuuxxx]

well WhoDo did you try the other search engines and the live help?
also puppy has issues with a few of programs from t2 when compiling say things like Firefox, Cairo is one, I'll work out a fix and upload packages for you. So we won't have compiling issues in the future with browsers and other graphic related items. Also I haven't given up on Seamonkey, but first I'll work out Firefox since Firefox and seamonkey are code related and firefox uses less code, it makes sense to get the smaller working first then it will have less issues for the larger. Oh and also because I like firefox way better lol
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

ok the live help link was basically a shortcut to [url]irc://freenode/puppylinux[/url] <--- click the link then wait and see.
if you like it then grab the url from the urlbar and then drag it to personal fav. bar where you deleted it, then right click it and change the name to "live help"
ttuuxxx

[WhoDo]

ok the live help link was basically a shortcut to [url]irc://freenode/puppylinux[/url] <--- click the link then wait and see.
if you like it then grab the url from the urlbar and then drag it to personal fav. bar where you deleted it, then right click it and change the name to "live help"

Done.

[ttuuxxx]

Libpng or png, ok the thing with png and puppy is that its really dated due to the new apng extension format, Apng is basically a png file with other png files included called animated png, just like a animated Gif. Its the latest web craze I guess, anyways newer browser like firefox, Opera and I'm guessing Seamonkey 2 needs this format to compile, The worst part its not in by default, you have to patch the png file before compiling the png sources, anyways Its done , I found the patch, patched the latest png and I'll upload the files later on, the libs for puppy and the rest for the for devx, I have a feeling there will be a few updates needed to support these emerging technologies. Also Apng graphics are far superior to animated gif. Amazing effects.
ttuuxxx

[rarsa]

I would appreciate it if Dougal, rarsa, MU, tempestuous, Pizzasgood, plinej, tronkel, rerwin and any of the other devs, who might be contributing something to Puppy 4.2, can indicate what they are working on here so I can better coordinate the efforts of all concerned..

Actually I haven't been doing anything Puppy-wise. I started looking at the forum again, so I may need to get up to speed on the plans and direction. (I Guess this is not the thread).

Is there a place to find this information without having to read 1000 posts? e.g. What apps are in, what WM will be used, What are the major changes, what is the dev language of choice, what is the target date (if any).

The two main factors have been lack of time and that I haven't had an itch to scratch. (Puppy just works, for me). Having said that there are a couple of areas that may require some work.
Puppy Install: Improve the UI and process
Package installation: I remember that there was a "team" working on improving it but I lost track of it
Adding some useful task bar applets: Wireless connectivity, Quick Launcher (like Gnome Do)
Improve the UI for the "Setup" tools.

I may be getting too late back into the game but even if it's not for this release, knowing the direction of Puppy may help me decide how to contribute.

[ttuuxxx]

I would appreciate it if Dougal, rarsa, MU, tempestuous, Pizzasgood, plinej, tronkel, rerwin and any of the other devs, who might be contributing something to Puppy 4.2, can indicate what they are working on here so I can better coordinate the efforts of all concerned..

Actually I haven't been doing anything Puppy-wise. I started looking at the forum again, so I may need to get up to speed on the plans and direction. (I Guess this is not the thread).

Is there a place to find this information without having to read 1000 posts? e.g. What apps are in, what WM will be used, What are the major changes, what is the dev language of choice, what is the target date (if any).

The two main factors have been lack of time and that I haven't had an itch to scratch. (Puppy just works, for me). Having said that there are a couple of areas that may require some work.
Puppy Install: Improve the UI and process
Package installation: I remember that there was a "team" working on improving it but I lost track of it
Adding some useful task bar applets: Wireless connectivity, Quick Launcher (like Gnome Do)
Improve the UI for the "Setup" tools.

I may be getting too late back into the game but even if it's not for this release, knowing the direction of Puppy may help me decide how to contribute.

Rasa nice to see you back, a lot of changes are happening, we managed to get icewm down to 500kb pet and works really nicely, So this release looks like 2 wm, jwm and Icewm, so users will have a nice r choice of wm, This thread only has 86 post so thats no really that bad
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

Hey Whodo
Ok I've been working hard on the firefox thing, I managed to compile it and it was 21MB extracted or 7.9MB pet, wow.
The first error I had was firefox needed the clearlooks theme, The the lightbulb went on, I had a released a clearlooks engine sometime back, so i reread the post and I quote"Thanks, ttuuxxx
I can finally SEE the text in the Firefox/Firepup menu without put my glasses on. "
could that be it? Firefox/Seamonkey uses clearlooks gtk2 engine and because puppy doesn't support at the moment could be the font issues we have to deal with all the time when making a seamonkey or firefox release for puppy????
So I then downloaded the latest "Clearlooks engine" and compiled it, the fonts were too small, so I change the font size to the same ones in the Gradient Grey and packaged it up. So now I'm thinking is it time to do away with all the gtk2 themes puppy has for default and replace it with "Clearlooks based themes" Sure we could alter some of the themes and have a "Gradient Grey Clearlooks" I could easily do that. but all the gtk2 themes should be using the Clearlooks engine.
Other programs in the past also have had warnings about couldn't find clearlooks. I think a switch to would increase stability system wide with various programs. Clearlooks now is only 51kb pet including 4 themes, its stable and works great, Did seamonkey always show a preview of windows when you highlight an inactive tab or is that a clearlooks thing ?? I never noticed that before

Back to Firefox, Once I installed firefox it showed no error via command line but didn't start, grrr so I'll keep at it
ttuuxxx
ps clearlooks is below enjoy

[ttuuxxx]

Here's a theme I converted over to Clearlooks, it was originally another clearlooks theme but didn't work, So I adapted it to one that did work and renamed it Clearlooks-Chocolate plus look how small the theme is
ttuuxxx

[Lobster]

Is there a place to find this information without having to read 1000 posts? e.g. What apps are in, what WM will be used, What are the major changes, what is the dev language of choice, what is the target date (if any).

http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki/archives ... -wish-list

[ttuuxxx]

Is there a place to find this information without having to read 1000 posts? e.g. What apps are in, what WM will be used, What are the major changes, what is the dev language of choice, what is the target date (if any).

http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki/archives ... -wish-list

hey lobster that wiki has a link to a sha1sum that is 3.5 times the size of this one,
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

I did it finally, Compiled the latest FireFox or shall I say FirePuP
She's running fast
now to test it before I start the hard work of transforming/optimizing it

Next will be Seamonkey

ttuuxxx

[WhoDo]

Actually I haven't been doing anything Puppy-wise. I started looking at the forum again, so I may need to get up to speed on the plans and direction. (I Guess this is not the thread).

I know that you've been keeping in touch through Barry's blog, so I hoped you wouldn't mind me including you in the list for the first official Puppy not directed personally by Barry.

Is there a place to find this information without having to read 1000 posts? e.g. What apps are in, what WM will be used, What are the major changes, what is the dev language of choice, what is the target date (if any).

See Lobster's post for a link to the Developer page on the wiki.

Basically 4.2 Deepthought is about polishing Puppy and adding usability features. The default wm is still JWM, but ttuuxxx has done an excellent job of bringing Icewm in at around 500kb so our users will definitely have the choice.

If you wanted to spend some time on xdg or anything else then your contribution would be most welcome. One of our current regulars is working on turning xdg menu's look-and-feel into something a little more Vista-like, or KDE4-like if you'd prefer.

The package list will be much the same as for 4.1.2, except that there will be only 1 calculator, no Notecase, Gpicview instead of Fotoxx, Seamonkey-1.1.14 will replace 1.1.11 (if ttuuxxx succeeds in a special compile for Puppy), several existing programs will be updated to the most recent versions, etc. The biggest single change will be Zigberts Pwidgets, a customisation of conky and xclock that allows users to add and remove widgets using a GUI interface.

We will also be working on making the interface to all apps as intuitive as possible, and several people are offering localization options. I'd like to see the standard .desktop files localized as much as possible, because that will cost us almost nothing in size. Target is 96Mb at this stage.

The two main factors have been lack of time and that I haven't had an itch to scratch. (Puppy just works, for me). Having said that there are a couple of areas that may require some work.
Puppy Install: Improve the UI and process
Package installation: I remember that there was a "team" working on improving it but I lost track of it
Adding some useful task bar applets: Wireless connectivity, Quick Launcher (like Gnome Do)
Improve the UI for the "Setup" tools.

These are all things that need attention. Look in particular at ttuuxxx's modified Package Manager for example.

Pizzasgood is also working on creating a CVS for packages, in addition to the one cb88 created for Puppy source on Sourceforge, and simplifying and cleaning up the Isolinux boot.

There are some timing issues in taskbar applets under Icewm. These are inherent somewhere in the Icewm source, and are not the result of ttuuxxx's pruning.

HairyWill has created a Rox-right-clicks program that matches mime types so that right clicking on a file will give appropriate options to start or edit the file.

MU has created a GUI .desktop file editor so almost anyone can create a new menu entry for a program without using the CLI.

CUPS is still problematic on many machines.

I may be getting too late back into the game but even if it's not for this release, knowing the direction of Puppy may help me decide how to contribute.

It's never too late for you, rarsa. We don't have a fixed release date for Puppy 4.2 Deepthought. I had planned to have the first alpha out before Christmas, but problems with Unleashed-4.1.2 and then my development machine prevented that. I'm now aiming for January 25th for the alpha.

I have built a couple of pre-alpha's and I'm still having problems setting the desktop for the LiveCD. Zigbert's programs may have something to do with that but I haven't had time to check it out yet. Puppy 4.1.2 seems stable enough that there really is no hurry to release yet. Barry is working on woof - Debian compatible Puppy - and ttuuxxx has the next edition of Slackware-compatible Puppy on simmer.

I'm glad there is time, as we all seem to have much to do. I'm really glad you're considering rejoining the effort.

Cheers, mate.

[WhoDo]

@WhoDo: Okay, I just did it as simply as I could for now - USB installs will have the exact same screen that LiveCD users get, 5-second timeout and all. The isolinux.cfg/syslinux.cfg/extlinux.conf file is now defined at /usr/lib/syslinux/files/syslinux.cfg, minus the final line which is added by the puppyinstaller script or the createpuppy script. That line is the only one that needs to change (to have pmedia=cd, pmedia=usbflash, etc.) based on how you install Puppy, so I had to leave it out and let those scripts handle it. Also defined in the same location is the boot.msg file, which is what holds the text that you see in the boot screen.

In an Unleashed setup, those files would go into the 0rootfs_skeleton package, and the createpuppy script will now look in rootfs-complete/usr/lib/syslinux/files/ for them. Any modifications should be made within the files in 0rootfs_skeleton-XXX/usr/lib/syslinux/files/ rather than the isolinux-builds/ directory.

Three files changed: /usr/sbin/puppyinstaller, and the createpuppy and createpuppy_unipup scripts.

The package contains a README explaining things in a little more detail, and a step-by-step for installing it (not that it's hard). It also has patches in case you've modified those files already for whatever reason.

Thanks, Jeremy. I'll have a good long look at what you've put together as soon as I get the chance. Did you want to have a look at an all-singing, all-dancing version for both the LiveCD and USB boots?

[WhoDo]

I did it finally, Compiled the latest FireFox or shall I say FirePuP
She's running fast
now to test it before I start the hard work of transforming/optimizing it

Next will be Seamonkey

Cool! Whichever one becomes the default in Deepthought, the other will be available directly from PETget. I must talk to Barry about getting upload access to the Puppy repo on ibiblio, too.

[Aitch]

WhoDo

Catdude made a nice gui for the grub/boot process a while back, though I've not seen it mentioned?
Size considerations allowing, can it be included?

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... c438ec9eeb

Also there was mention [Lobster] of including pupweb desktop - is this included?

http://pupweb.org/desktop/

Thanks for including localisations - still hope to see devs working towards full internationalisation, if possible, even if as SFS add-ons

Interesting discussion here, too

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... fe08870607

Keep up the good work & thanks ttuuxxx

Aitch

[WhoDo]

Catdude made a nice gui for the grub/boot process a while back, though I've not seen it mentioned?
Size considerations allowing, can it be included?

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... c438ec9eeb

Absolutely! I must have missed this one earlier! I fell in love with gfx-boot in PCLinuxOS and used that to boot my Puppy's for quite some time. I never got around to building a .pet for it though. Glad CatDude did!

Also there was mention [Lobster] of including pupweb desktop - is this included?

http://pupweb.org/desktop/

Yes.

Thanks for including localisations - still hope to see devs working towards full internationalisation, if possible, even if as SFS add-on

Just for the record, ANYONE can work on localising the .desktop files for our standard applications. It isn't that hard. All you need is a template to work from and there are enough of those in /usr/share/applications to do the job.

Full internationalisation is another matter. We have Vietnamese puppy, Japanese puppy, French puppy, Russian puppy and German puppy. It shouldn't be too hard for someone with the experience on one of those Puppy's to build an SFS of the International components for their language. As an English-only speaker, it can't be me.

[ttuuxxx]

WhoDo You might of missed also on page 6 I was talking about clearlooks theme engine and posted a very small pet of 51kb including 4 themes and plus one additional 1kb theme, lol

also when I was talking about the new Apng theme wow does it ever look nice on the new firefox 3.1b2 I compiled
this image located at http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3549 ... layfe9.png
if you view it in seamonkey its still, but with the new apng patch on png added with the new Firefox 3, the water ripples non-stop, very nice indeed, imagine what we are missing and don't even know about it when we load up websites with png images and they are currently still when they actually have motion.
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

hey if you look at this one in seamonkey, while the page loads you can see frame by frame as it downloads, but it doesn't move after, but in ff3 it does move very smoothly.
http://animatedpng.com/index.php/sample ... e/#more-26
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

here's the new png thats patched with Apng Animated png, The extra cost is 40kb the extra gain Priceless
2 package below one for the default puppy and one for the devx compiler, if you have a version of firefox 3 install the the main package below and go to one of the images I posted above and compare seamonkey and FF3 with the new Apng, the old png in puppy can be removed and this one will replace it just fine.
enjoy
ttuuxxx