(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

The wiki supports the threads you can go there as a starting point and see all the threads related to that topic.

I Have added entry's for corepup Tazpup etc and all references to those projects.

Like I said it belongs to everybody, it is not a replacement for the forum it supports it.

Again if you want it up to date help add and edit - anyone can.

thanks again darry

i will check it out


wanderer

wanderer wrote:thanks again darry

i will check it out


wanderer

Thanks Wanderer if anything in the Corepup entry isn't right I will correct it.

I have also included Mcorepup under this entry.

Can I suggest you put a link to the Puppy wikka in your Puppy forum profile signature darry, since you more than anyone seems to have been looking after it, and easy to find it via that link whenever you are discussing it?

I note, by the way, that the http://puppylinux.org site is very out of date: it lists Puppy as being ~100MB, which is no longer true for any other than TazPup! The http://puppylinux.com site seems to be better kept up-to-date more generally.

Also noted, however: https://puppylinux.org allows https but http://puppylinux.com doesn't...

wiak

It's exciting...

'Someone' suddenly changing things at:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/p ... ree/master

Looks like the Puppy 'team' has decided to add new team member, and modified wording to replace words 'official puppylinux builds' with 'puppylinux woof builds'.

I gather therefore that the puppy team members are in fact discussing matters of Puppy importance by PM in the background, so maybe some official comment about the fact of there being "Distributions created by members of the Murga Puppy Forum" will be forthcoming along with a decision how that matter will be advertised to newcomers via this thread or anyone elses post, being made sticky, that confirms the truth of the situation in some shape or form that that 'team' find acceptable. Of course that team should be considering the needs of the Dog threads in this forum too, in terms of avoiding newcomer confusion, if they are indeed to be considered the umbrella team for all of us on here (per the Puppy-related status of the Dogs outlined in Puppy Linux website).

Personally, I would like to propose for Fred (fredx181) to represent the DebianDogs in that 'team' and someone else from FatDog (EDIT: just notices jamesbond already on the team), because these Dogs are all very long established here on the forum.

In any case: Will the Dogs get a new mention? Joking. I surely got to satisfy the reputation of evasive/snide/passive-aggressive, but really I am just joking, but not joking about proposing Fred of DebianDogs for the Puppy Family umbrella 'team' - nothing evasive or snide or passive/aggressive about it, despite the accusations and attacks against me. Main thing is the Puppy Forum currently contains what it contains, support threads for various non-pups, whether that is liked by some or all or not; it is just a fact that newcomers should be aware of; Fred may or may not want to or be willing to be a member of the Puppy Family 'team' but the fact of the Dogs' longterm presence on this forum remains.

See attached images.

Hope they fix the difference between:

http://puppylinux.com/download.html

and

http://puppylinux.com/index.html#download

though we can always push an issue per jamesbond useful info post:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 27#1020227

The discussion was done in the open.
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/p ... /issues/30

jamesbond wrote:The discussion was done in the open.
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/p ... /issues/30

Thank you. Shows you how little I know about.

[EDITED to clear up my saying push-rights when I meant commit-rights and to what resource]

So, per some statements in that thread, is the Puppy 'team' only about those who have 'commit rights' to woof-CE, in which case I guess my proposal for fredx181 wouldn't fit, but who has commit rights to puppy linux website (which declares itself as family including all Dogs)? Yet that discussion is about the Puppy com website; not about woof-CE per se - who has commit rights to the website, which is a Puppy Family website - not just Puppy?

Having now read that discussion, my concern is 'the possibility' that some 'stewards' are biased against the Dogs (in particular DebianDogs) being on the Puppy Forum site. (Outbursts, past and present, have tended to demonstrate that bias, IMO, though I am myself biased against such outbursts though not at all biased against Puppy linux distro itself). I don't think such forum members should have core places on Puppy Family Team (since it includes the Dogs). I'd go with idea for only 01micko and one non-biased deputy (as a stand-in for when 01micko not available) for that Puppy Family team leadership purpose. Woof-CE commit-rights is another matter and only concerns Puppy linux distro itself.

Of course, the fuss that has been made by some over the surely simple facts described in the first post of this thread (and the lack of forum administrator commenting on sticky thread possibility) tends to cement my view of Puppy Linux bias being a problem here. The reality of various small distros being supported via various threads on this forum remains, despite the lack of willingness by some to declare that fact for newcomers.

Now here is an interesting old post (from 2014). Funny thing is, with latest incarnations of fredx181's mklive-stretch script it would be pretty easy to implement. And that would indeed need a different attitude as to what is 'official' in the Puppy Linux Family world:

jamesbond wrote:Saintless DebianDog's scripts can be made fully automated and incorporated into Woof-CE, making a puppy out of a Debian LiveCD. Iguleder's all-static packdude-based puppy can be merged into Woof-CE, too.

There is room enough for all in Woof-CE.

Now that is the opposite of 'division' and 'separation'; rather that is team-building, and if that mklive-stretch script was incorporated into woof-CE (which it could be) fredx181 really should have a position on that Puppy 'Family' team. That's my proposal anyway. Any seconders?

However, all this is a little off-topic (sorry), though obviously related. The first post of this thread has a much simpler purpose though. It just an attempt to describe the actual current situation regarding what distros have support threads on this forum.

wiak

Great idea Wiak.

wiak wrote:So, per some statements in that thread, is the Puppy 'team' only about those who have 'commit rights' to woof-CE,

No. Puppy team is everyone who wants to contribute and improve Puppy Linux. Woof-CE committers are Puppy LInux team which have been trusted to make direct code changes to Woof-CE (which is the "Puppy maker").

but who has commit rights to puppy linux website

01micko, mavrothal and me. Because we were the ones authoring it.

(which declares itself as family including all Dogs)?

We need to make a distinction of "Puppy Linux" as a distro, and "Puppy LInux as a concept/ideas".

"Puppy Linux" as a distro must come from Woof-CE. There are many of such distros, but they aren't "Puppy Linux family", they are all Puppy LInux proper.

"Puppy LInux family" on the other hand refers to "Puppy Linux" as ideas/concepts.

Now, Puppy LInux website is, was and has always been about Puppy Linux "the distro". Barry doesn't make it easy to access the pages, but here is the relevant statement and links to the original puppylinux.com before the age of the stewards: http://bkhome.org/archive/puppylinux/ (last link at the bottom of the page).

The mention of "Puppy Linux family" is meant to acknowledge that Puppy Linux has grown from mere physical presence of a "distro" into something much larger, as an idea, as a concept. A concept that has been extended, re-implemented, re-thougth, etc so many times in so many different ways, each has its own focus and emphasis (some emphasizing smallness, some emphasizing "old computer" aspects, some emphasizing "easy-for-windows-refugee", some emphasizing "compatibility with parent distro", etc).

The list of distros in this "Puppy LInux family" category is only meant as examples; they're not the official list and it's not meant to promote them.

(This is different from the forum. This forum has always been about something that is Puppy Linux-related stuff. The relationship can be as close or as remote as it could be (e.g. attempting to run PET packages on Ubuntu?), for example. In fact, we even have an off-topic section which talks about thoroughly non-Puppy stuff. So request for re-organise as you will, but those asking for "non-Puppy" stuff to go is irrational and don't learn their history.)

___________________________________

Having now read that discussion, my concern is 'the possibility' that some 'stewards' are biased against the Dogs (in particular DebianDogs) being on the Puppy Forum site. (Outbursts, past and present, have tended to demonstrate that bias, IMO, though I am myself biased against such outbursts though not at all biased against Puppy linux distro itself). I don't think such forum members should have core places on Puppy Family Team (since it includes the Dogs).

The Puppy LInux stewards is only responsible for the Puppy Linux "the distro". It has no control nor authority over "Puppy LInux Family" (aka "Puppy Linux the idea/concept") because they're developed independently, and because they're just that, ideas.

I'd go with idea for only 01micko and one non-biased deputy (as a stand-in for when 01micko not available) for that Puppy Family team leadership purpose. Woof-CE commit-rights is another matter and only concerns Puppy linux distro itself.

The Puppy Linux "leadership" basically takes care of two things at the moment:
- Woof-CE
- puppylinux.com website.
Both of these are for "Puppy LInux" the distro. So they're one and the same.

As for the "biased steward", I guess you're talking about mavrothal.

I know mavrothal personally. He's a decent, reasonable, and logical person. If he disagrees on something there must be a reason. But I will admit I am not aware of the outburst that you mentioned, though I would allow the one can have outbursts sometime (I know I do).

That being said, mavrothal is a "steward" because he, togeher with 01micko, was the one who started Woof-CE. I'm not sure if you were active in the forum during the speculative days that Barry would step down. During the days that there were no updates and no news from Barry. There was a very long thread about it, everybody talked but nobody took action.

mavrothal cared enough for continued Puppy existence so he took the first step, started Woof-CE. And that's how it all started. He and 01micko made it happen. Barry, seeing the initiative, decided to handover control of Puppy to 01micko. That's how he became a steward.

From all that I've seen so far, mavrothal does not and did not impose his will on the direction of Woof-CE (for or against anything). He is active in Woof-CE but mainly as a committer of last resort, or just as user suggesting improvements things here and there. The same can be said of his activities for Puppy LInux website.

That being said, everyone is entitled to his opinion, and we all can agree to disagree. I don't always agree with mavrothal either (and vice versa) but we get along very well.

Now, I don't know if he's biased again the *Dogs, he might be. But as far as I can tell, this does not affect at all what he's doing in Woof-CE/Puppy Linux.com website, and the way I see it, this what a good steward is all about - one with very strong conviction but detached from his opinions as far as work for the betterment of Puppy is involved.

If there is ever an election for Puppy stewardship, mavrothal will get my vote - not because of he's my friend, but because of the good work that he has done, and because he really cares about Puppy.

Back to topic: For the record, I agree with you about sticky post of an introductory "post" about the various kind of Puppy and Puppy offshots being discussed in this forum. I also agree with wanderer that this sticky should be in the beginner and user section (the two sections where the users post most help questions).

I think we need to add a statement that "due to the variety of Puppy Linux and Puppy LInux-like distros discussed in this forum, please always mention the exact Puppy (or Puppy-like) distro that you use / ask about, along with the version". Or something to that effect.

In fact, those helpers who are actively helping and responding, should have that words as their "signature".

jamesbond wrote:I think we need to add a statement that "due to the variety of Puppy Linux and Puppy LInux-like distros discussed in this forum, please always mention the exact Puppy (or Puppy-like) distro that you use / ask about, along with the version". Or something to that effect.

Done. Will amend my blog post accordingly once I have time.

Wow, that just happened:

wiak's passive aggressive attack on mavrothal wrote:...my concern is 'the possibility' that some 'stewards' are biased against the Dogs...I don't think such forum members should have core places on Puppy Family Team

jamesbond's affirmative rejection of said attack wrote:As for the "biased steward", I guess you're talking about mavrothal...If there is ever an election for Puppy stewardship, mavrothal will get my vote - not because of he's my friend, but because of the good work that he has done, and because he really cares about Puppy.

Wiak, you're such a tool that you don't even know it.

wiak wrote:Of course, the fuss that has been made by some over the surely simple facts described in the first post of this thread (and the lack of forum administrator commenting on sticky thread possibility) tends to cement my view of Puppy Linux bias being a problem here.

No wiak, I'm afraid the only problem here is you.

Puppy Linux bias? Uuhhh...this is a Puppy Linux Discussion Forum. Yes there's a lot more here than Puppy Linux, but it's all about respect.

Respecting where you are. I think for example that fredx181 is a very respectful guest/member of the Puppy forums, just creating and supporting in his threads. And I don't see the big problem. There's nothing in this post that regular members don't already know about what's to be found here. And for new members, a few posts and redirections and they figure out that Dog and Puppy are different things in different threads. Oh the calamity. I don't think there's any need for users to be directed or not directed to Puppy or Dog or other. If it's a bit of a mess it's because non-Puppy exists on a Puppy forum. So it's certainly not Puppy's fault or responsibility. They are guests. Act like it.

Respecting the distro. Unlike some people who shall not be named (ok, like wiak) that constantly make snide remarks about Puppy 'stewards' and constantly criticize Puppy programs and methodologies. Many are just carrying on what exists now and is baked into the product. So what you're really doing without the courage to do in the open is criticizing Barry's methods. Hey, it might be quick and dirty, but it works. And a whole bunch of quick and dirty working adds up to a very popular distro that got into the top 20 in Distrowatch and probably more real support than that. Why don't you try that with your Wiak Linux or whatever.

Respecting the name Puppy. The Puppy name is still owned by Barry, correct? Many popular projects for whatever reason have not used the name Puppy, such as Fatdog, Dog Linux (Debiandog) etc. But it has been common for derivatives or spins to adopt the suffix Pup if they are built from the same tools. They may look different on the outside, but the innards are still Puppy, like Macpup or LxPup etc. But corepup? TazPuppy? That's stretching it a bit. Since Dog is kind of taken by the DebLive family, maybe tiny Mutt or Taz Hound or something could be used. Just not Puppy.

As for this thread, as I said before, the subject could be of some use, the message is not wrong, it's the messenger.(yes that's you wiak) Trouble is, you really don't think things through, and have come up with a few boneheaded ideas before. Yet you think you're always right. Resistant to change or input, constantly telling others that you know the right way to do it.

It's been said that a wise man understands how ignorant he is, while a fool thinks he knows everything.

I understand how ignorant I am. Wiak, you think you know everything.<mic drop>

jd7654 wrote:This post is not what it purports to be. "Distributions Supported on Murga Forum" maybe should be "Wiak's opinion of which Distributions should be Supported on Murga Forum."
Or maybe this is some kind of list of different underlying architecture types, I dunno, it does not make a cohesive presentation.
The categories lack detail, scope and context. No status or description of following or release and polished or baked in status. No subcategories or family listings, underlying Woof, WoofCE, LFS, no mention of desktop and Rox. And maybe should have a separate section honorable mentions of other distros or spins which may not be supported or proper "Puppy" distros, etc, etc.

But now (below) we hear that it's not the 'post' that's wrong, it is the messenger. So the above complaint was simply a fake message to allow a personal trolling attack:

jd7654 wrote:As for this thread, as I said before, the subject could be of some use, the message is not wrong, it's the messenger.(yes that's you wiak) Trouble is, you really don't think things through, and have come up with a few boneheaded ideas before.

So not a technical issue, but rather a personal gripe - trolling.

And the troll hardly uses Puppy (or Dogs) nowadays since using Windows 10:

jd7654 wrote:I rarely check in here nowadays. Mainly just check out the latest of Barry's creations, or latest Fatdog or something. Used and supported Dogs in the past but just don't use Dog or Puppy much on my current platforms: newer Windows 10 laptops and Chromebooks.

Fred supports the first post in this thread and has also asked for it to be made sticky. Go away jd7654 troll.

[EDITED once to evidence jd7654 as troll. The poster has bluntly stated his main issue as being personal against 'wiak', which is trolling; forum moderator please take notice]

If jd7654 had bothered to read the Taz Puppy thread he would know it is a Puppy Linux/Slitaz Hybrid, So as far as I am concerned his own contributions lack credibility.

darry19662018 wrote:If jd7654 had bothered to read the Taz Puppy thread he would know it is a Puppy Linux/Slitaz Hybrid...<snip>

jamesbond wrote:"Puppy Linux" as a distro must come from Woof-CE.

To call yourself Puppy, you mush come from Woof-CE. Pup suffix is debatable for a hybrid without all Puppy functionality. And the Core one is not even a Pup.

on a positive note

what are your favorite puppy and puppy inspired projects past and present

for me

214 classic was great

pupngo was awesome

i still use 217 for compiling gtk1 apps and to see the pretty icons

i wish there was an easy way to make pupngo with woof-ce

and thanks everyone (i mean everyone)

for being a part of the puppy community


wanderer

wiak wrote:Fred supports the first post in this thread and has also asked for it to be made sticky. Go away jd7654 troll.

Shouldn't be about me and the discussion in previous posts is very off-topic IMO, please let's drop anything personal (better use PM for that, so we all don't have to read it) and focus on original subject that bigpup has brought up (and wiak's action did follow up on that) , what's the best to avoid confusion between real Puppy and Puppy-like projects.

Flash, where are you ? Any reason to not make this thread sticky ? (or at least first post)
And why not reply to any of the PM's sent to you from a few forum members about this.
Only I can guess, to much different opinions about the subject ? (but I'd like to hear what's your view)

Fred

Poster jd7654 has clearly stated that his main issue is personal (against me), which as I said in my one edit to last post is trolling and I ask the moderator to deal with that, since such trolling is disruptive to work:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 27#1021527

It actually doesn't matter to me who supports the first post or not - I posted it simply because I think the information on it is helpful for newcomers (and some regulars). It is fine for people to disagree with it; I understand the concerns from both sides.

As I have already stated, my first post in this thread was simply my attempt at an active/do-something response to the concern raised by bigpup on other thread. I have since suffered several attacks and certainly they wear me down such that it becomes difficult not to respond. Hence the term 'trolling', which is akin to fishing I suppose, and the need for forum moderator more generally. Even my wife is worried by the aggressive nature/comments of jd7654 and has asked me to leave the forum, but I've reassured her that such things just happen on forums like this but not to worry.

wiak

EDIT: jd7654, by the way, changed his last post by re-wording what was his claim against TazPup that "jamesbond says that anything not built on woof-CE is not a Pup". Typical troll behaviour. EDIT2: I'm wrong on that one, sorry - I see now that the jamesbond info was a quote he did include.

I have no more to add or say about my first post. The forum moderator Flash, did not respond to the PM I sent him about it some time ago either.

If it is of no use to anyone, that is fine. Hopefully something active will be done to address the original concern raised by bigpup though that would need active forum administration/moderation.

wiak