(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

the last saviour wrote:Lieber Herr RSH;
Sorry to know that you had quit this project.
As you only have problem with this forum, not this project. Why not find another forum to continue LaZy?

Hi.

I had to quit this project for several reasons. This deleting-my-posts-stuff was just the butt-kick to make me able to do this. I sometimes do have problems to quit things - even when I'm knowing, it's time to do so.

Don't want to be missunderstood: I'm still using it and I'm still glad to have it. Meanwhile I did remove my Installation of Kubuntu and if there wouldn't be a need to do a scan disk from time to time on my FAT32 drives, Windows would follow!

So, I quit, because:

- LazY Puppy (Lucid) is somehow outdated (Kernel 2.6.33.2)
- LazY Puppy can't handle USB 3
- I do need three or four times longer developing DE/EN stuff
- I'm much faster when doing only DE stuff (so, I can do lot of more work in less time)
- I can't even work that fast in only DE like new ideas and concepts do come to my mind (maybe from outer space - I don't know)

So, there are a lot of reasons to change my focus. It's not LazY Puppy I'm really interested in - it is its concept of using SFS files instead of installing programs.

LazY Puppy did come already with the SFS concept in version 528-4. Then it has been 10 SFS Suites containing several programs categorized in the SFS Suites like Audio, Graphics, Video etc.pp. Which was something that sunburnt often says (sfs files and roxapps don't fill up the save file - or similar) This LazY Puppy concept has been pretty much refined by the invention of LazY Puppy's SFS P.L.U.S. and its programs.

This, the concept of LazY Puppy, SFS P.L.U.S. and its useful programs etc.pp. is what I'm interested in. There might come the day where I do have a need to use/buy newer hardware like USB 3 flash drives which would result in a need to have a newer LazY Puppy.

And I don't want to do all this stuff over and over again.

So, developing (without publishing anything) only in DE makes me able to rework some of my programs and to work also on new ideas and programs.

I will do a post later of a really new and great concept (with an already existing (DE) program) about the so called application-starter like PupMenu and PupApps. This really never has been seen before and I doubt it has been thought before. I have mentioned this already in the German forum.

So, meanwhile I did create the VSP-LazY-Puppy Builder Scipt, which has turned now into my LazY Puppy Transformer. The LazY Puppy Transformer makes me able to create a LazY Puppy SFS Module (not the StArtLPx2_202.sfs) from always my newest version either from within the running LazY Puppy or from within the running Puppy to build a new LazY Puppy from. Then I'm just installing the Openbox windowmanager, switching the wm to openbox, loading the LazY Puppy SFS Module, executing a script, which guides me through some steps need to be done manually and executes the LazY Remaster Suite after finishng the script.

I'm able now to build a new full featured LazY Puppy in about 20 Minutes - DE only.

SInce there is no further need to have a DE LazY Puppy anymore -because of the meanwhile available DE language packages- I do have to change/translate all this stuff into English language. So, I can do future LazY Puppy work just for an EN iso - which would also save time for me to use it for some other real life needs.

So far I can say: the chances are really good that I might com up with a new EN-only LazY Puppy based on newer 3.x.x Kernels. I did some of this already for the DE users like a LazY Precise based on 5.6 and a LazY LxPup based on 13.01.

Created with the VSP-LazY-Puppy Builder (it wasn't turned into the LazY Puppy Transformer then).

the last saviour wrote:Remember I rank you as #1 developer here.

Thank you very much!

Yes, I do know: I did made some work, that is somehow really great stuff. But, only: it depends on LazY Puppy with its old kernel and is not or only in parts of older versions available for the users of other puppies.

So, to fill your saying, #1 developer here, with something like "life" and to give to it something like a "long term" I did also need to quit this here old version. Please, do believe me: it was really successful to do so. If you would see the LazY Puppy Transformer in Action, you surely would be convinced.

But, hey, everyone out there who is using LazY Puppy: please, keep using it.

I don't know much about real LazY Puppy users and how much are out there and I even don't want to open a new thread like "Who am I developing for", but I'm convinced of the LazY Puppy concept, SFS P.L.U.S. and some more programs of LazY Puppy. To make this available for new puppy versions or to build new LazY Puppy versions the easiest way to handle is my focus now - and all of this is now coming together with my new and really amazing concept for the so-called application-starters like PupApps and PupMenu.

They might be just blown away!

About this new concept and its resulting program I'll have to do my next post. I just have to decide now where, in which forum I have to do this, because it is neither an announcement nor an request (maybe partly an request, which depends on what I do want to have/get/reach/achieve?).

Need some minutes to think about it and will post a link here later. Please do read this and you will know...

...since you already know...

RSH

Edit:

Ok, here is the link.

Lieber Herr RSH;

I really appreciate your answer.
Thank you very much.

I don't understand why many people try to release their own Puppy! If it's for their personal use that's should be fine. But if they really want Puppy to be on the market I would suggest someone who has the same concept of Puppy (same desktop and file manager), but different ability of programming knowledge to form a team. No mattter how excellent you are at software and OS I don't think anyone can solve every computer problem. And even it doesn't success, you will waste you time much less than you work alone.

the last saviour wrote: I don't understand why many people try to release their own Puppy! If it's for their personal use that's should be fine.

because we can. get off your high horse.. it's called sharing.. akita is way older than lazy, i share it when i update it.. simple. if you don't like people making their own versions of puppy, don't use them and go and help make the official puppy better, if you can. kao jai mai

I don't understand why many people try to release their own Puppy! If it's for their personal use that's should be fine.

I did not intend to end up developing and publishing LazY Puppy - just wanted to try to build my own puppy for my own purposes. Inspired by the 2 sfs files offered with Muppy 08.3F and impressed by 10wt3ch's Studio 3.3.

After a while I found it a good idea to offer it for the people (it was stored at mediafire then and has had only the ten sfs suites). Then smoky01 did enter the scene offering an account at his server for my use and to store the LazY Puppy over there. The rest did follow step by step, is already known and would not have been possible without all the help from the members of the forum.

Now I'm back to my basic intention, to build my own puppy - now for real.

Which doesn't exclude developing programs for the community generally.

But if they really want Puppy to be on the market I would suggest someone who has the same concept of Puppy (same desktop and file manager), but different ability of programming knowledge to form a team.

Even though I'm working alone on LazY Puppy, I've had already a great team: the community and the single German member of the forum who has made all the testings for my programs developed in 2012. He did not left me, because he was able to see, what will come up in the end. He is using now LazY Puppy as main OS installed on 25 computers (Windows removed) on a public school in Germany.

And I'm sure: at least, in the end, he was surprised - like I am each and every day when booting up my LazY Puppy.

No mattter how excellent you are at software and OS I don't think anyone can solve every computer problem.

Yes, I agree.

This is also an argument to change my focus. I don't want to be responsible for problems and issues that are results of remastering a puppy and/or adding/removing stuff to the OS etc.pp. My responsibility in the future should only be related to the programs developed and published.

So, I'm trying to put all the LazY Puppy Concept Applications together to work nicely from SFS - so called: LazY Puppy by SFS Module. The user than is free to choose which OS to use and must go to the original thread, if something is not working in the OS which has nothing to do with my applications.

And even it doesn't success, you will waste you time much less than you work alone.

Believe me: not a single second was wasted!

RSH

Last Saviour

Many bad aliens live in the high building (~50 fl.), some decoration around the top. Near Time Square?

Did this come from an office memo in the Mc Carthy Witchhunt Trials of the 50's?

Smithy; I think he means off world aliens. But maybe you did too...

the last saviour; Expressing one`s self. And helping others.

As I`ve suggested, a Puppy community effort to provide direction and preserve developments.
There`s code sharing and cooperation among variant builders, but no central repository.
.

LazyPuppy loaded on precise ?
I usually now load on the fly oldest puppy on recent distros.
I am running lazy puppy with Precise.
Why ? I am far from my home and only wifi works. Lucid cannot connect wifi with my computer, but Precise does.
I only load the Lazy SFS on the fly and with the desktop program, i choose a lazy pup theme and background. The result is a distro in french.
see screenshot.

Menus are in french.
As Precise is upgrated with french language, even lazy programs are translated ! Foolish, no ?
Menu is a sum of both distros.

Pelo wrote:LazyPuppy loaded on precise ?
I usually now load on the fly oldest puppy on recent distros.
I am running lazy puppy with Precise.

I only load the Lazy SFS on the fly and with the desktop program, i choose a lazy pup theme and background.

Nice work! How do you get this to work? (How is it possible to run the Precise sfs and the Lazy sfs at the same time without something like virtualbox?). Thanks.

Sorry to hear your variant is gone RHS. And another one bites the dust...

I appeal to you to preserve the "details" of what you have created here.
Much custom code has been created for LazyPup that shouldn`t be lost.

It`s truly unique, steps further in development than ChoicePup which came before.

### A newer version based on Raring would be the next step.

# Perhaps a new partner will step forward and offer to take up the banner?
Providing the effort and any new code required to make a Raring variant.

It would seem not too difficult for someone familiar with Pup builder scripts.
Like anything, the first few are the learning phase, and then it`s old hat.
.

I don't understand why many people try to release their own Puppy!

Because they vainly hope it will bring in new ideas but eventaully they realise that having it for your own use is as far as you will get.

So we have some neat distros kicking around hidden in our Out house cupboards

mike

Mike; But I`m sure you`ll agree that the "neat" stuff should be canned for posterity.

What makes Debian and Ubuntu work? Lots of folks each doing a small part.
They aren`t one-man-shows, like it is here at Puppy.
But as many say... This is probably all Puppy will ever be.

Thomas Alva Edison:
No new idea will ever prosper in an existing company.
A new company must be formed around it.

sunburnt wrote: But as many say... This is probably all Puppy will ever be.

Thomas Alva Edison:
No new idea will ever prosper in an existing company.
A new company must be formed around it.

Puppy is at the top of it's class for a minimal sized distro. The creativity and innovation shown by the community has been nothing short of phenomenal.

Puppy isn't a company, so there's not much in the direction of innovative breakthroughs with broad appeal. It's more like a language, that can easily be adapted for individual use. The beauty is in the simplicity.

The beauty is in the simplicity.

Ah so you have never examined puppies scripts.
For simplicity look at slitaz or slax.....

As for pup most changes I see in the main releases are the ones implemented by Ubuntu. The real innovations are seen in the puplets and community releases.

mike

@sunburnt...the neat stuff is used here on a daily basis

mikeb wrote:

The beauty is in the simplicity.

Ah so you have never examined puppies scripts.
For simplicity look at slitaz or slax.....

Scripts are non-compiled code. If you think you can improve a script, I'd suggest you learn how to do that vs writing meaningless comments about everyone elses' work.

Well since puppy is held together with a plethora of scripts their condition is relevant to the description of Puppy as 'simple'...not just my opinion ask anyone who has worked on it.

The binaries are taken from other distros with few exceptions so any 'simplicity' in that domain has nothing to do with Puppy.

I have taken all the Puppy initrd/boot/wrapper/shutdown scripts apart and rewritten or tidied as appropriate adding features in the process. I may not be a 'programmer' but i do have a chunk of experience in this particular area.

mike

Puppy`s boot process is complex because of it`s many boot types.
And the union file system adds more complexity to all aspects.

# In line with RHS`s retirement:
Puppy is for the most part a one-man-show. Many of them...
This doesn`t lend itself to preserving the improvements made.
And greatly limits what can be accomplished. The efforts of one.

# Doesn`t it seem that cooperation for common good is best?

Debian and Ubuntu are cohesive as the individual`s load is small.
So the participants remain doing what they do best for the whole.

# In Puppy`s case, it wouldn`t take many people to form a group.
.

In Puppy`s case, it wouldn`t take many people to form a group.

how many exactly... I heard three's a crowd

I got the Lucid initrd init down from 60K to 25k with a similar range of options so theres always room for optimising.

The main releases are definately the work of several individuals though one man shows can sometimes produce good results... half the problem is testing with the huge range of hardware and software out there and thats where input is needed. The murga forum at least does provide a good source of feedback for anyone attempting developement.

Perhaps what I see lacking is an effective way to contribute ideas to the main releases which as I suggested earlier is why puplets often appear, not including the ones which are just standard releases with 2 added programs and a nice wallpaper.
How much of the ideas in Lazy puppy will actually ever get utilised in precise??. And bear in mind its dev has been inspired by other older puplets showing the possibilities...

mike

mikeb wrote:I have taken all the Puppy initrd/boot/wrapper/shutdown scripts apart and rewritten or tidied as appropriate adding features in the process.

Hi Mike, have those changes found their way into any mainstream pups or were they changes made for your own use? I'd be keen to try an iso with such updates.

To use LazyPup as an example, just a few are needed to maintain a bare-bones core O.S.
And folks each specializing in a chosen group of new app. packages, and so doing it well.
Web browsers, media players-editors-encoders, office suites, games, languages & dev., etc.
Once there`s a good set of app. groups, then the only work is building newly released apps.

With about 6 people ( and 4 substitutes so no one`s over worked ) this could be sustainable.
This is how Debian and Ubuntu maintain their distros. And they`re very large cooperatives.
This type of organization could work even better in smaller groups like is needed for Puppy.
It depends so heavily on the people involved, but limiting the work load for each sure helps.
.