(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Posted: **Tue 18 Jan 2011, 03:33**

ttuuxxx wrote:I just tested all the links I posted with puppy 5.2 and all are working 100% with
vlc gtk 2.2 http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=35571
and http://ppm.scottjarvis.com/multimedia/v ... 0.8.6h.pet combined
ttuuxxx

Thank you ttuuxxx, does this mean that a person who seeks to listen to streaming audio with Puppy Wary 5.0, needs to download BOTH of these two components? If so, should such action be performed sequentially?

Do folks here, understand that all other distros, in my experience, at least, either include VLC with default installation program on the CDROM, or, if not, then, at least require only a single download, e.g. selecting VLC, from a list with "Synaptic".

Puppy seems determined to act as though folks came out of the womb understanding the strange jargon employed here, "pups", as well as the need to download something called gtk, whatever that is, while concurrently foisting off some wretched streaming audio players, "out of the box", as though they represented something useful. WHY? Doesn't anyone at puppy land test these wretched audio players?

Why is an otherwise superb linux distro so completely dreadful when it comes to streaming audio reception? Perhaps the engineers there are all deaf? The old Puppy had Amarok, what a nightmare. The new one offers something equally unusable.

Am I the only person who finds this situation completely bizarre? VLC is the standard. Why wouldn't anyone want to use it? I feel like I am talking to the engineers at Cal Tech who insist on using the English system of weights and measures, instead of the Metric system.

CAI ENG

Posted: **Tue 18 Jan 2011, 04:05**

hi caieng a little history lesson

VLCGTK is frontend to vlc, around 6 yrs ago vlc had a gtk gui but was discarded for a wxgtk gui, which blewup the overall size by 200%.
Then they dropped the wxgtk gui for a qt gui which triples the size of the VLC package Due to all the library not found in a default puppy, that is why we usually go with gxine, because puppy does have the library's and plays just about all the same formats as vlc, but with a great savings in file size, also we use mplayer, which is a bit bigger than gxine, but does provide a bit more formats.

Now back to vlc, the pet I provide is a vlc package I made for 4 series and removed the very large wxgtk gui and all the wxgtk libs. reducing the package from around 9MB to 2.6MB.
Forum member sc0ttman made a nice gui to work with VLC backend at 55kb.
So that is why you need the gui and also the vlc pet to run it.
hope that helps,
also I think if you want the regular vlc with a qt gui you'll find it in the puppy package manager in 5.2
ttuuxxx

Posted: **Tue 18 Jan 2011, 09:05**

ttuuxxx wrote:hi caieng a little history lesson
VLCGTK is frontend to vlc, around 6 yrs ago vlc had a gtk gui but was discarded for a wxgtk gui, which blewup the overall size by 200%.
Then they dropped the wxgtk gui for a qt gui which triples the size of the VLC package Due to all the library not found in a default puppy, that is why we usually go with gxine, because puppy does have the library's and plays just about all the same formats as vlc, but with a great savings in file size, also we use mplayer, which is a bit bigger than gxine, but does provide a bit more formats.

Now back to vlc, the pet I provide is a vlc package I made for 4 series and removed the very large wxgtk gui and all the wxgtk libs. reducing the package from around 9MB to 2.6MB.
Forum member sc0ttman made a nice gui to work with VLC backend at 55kb.
So that is why you need the gui and also the vlc pet to run it.
hope that helps,
also I think if you want the regular vlc with a qt gui you'll find it in the puppy package manager in 5.2
ttuuxxx

Thank you very much, ttuuxxx, for this noteworthy explanation, much appreciated.

And thanks also to you, and to sc0ttman for your terrific efforts to get VLC to run on Puppy Linux.

I don't know, or understand, the distinction between "qt gui", which you associate with "regular VLC", and the ? ??? which you and Sc0ttman use.

I will try to reinstall Wary 5.0, using your two links to install VLC.

Testing: Is your implementation identical in functionality and timing with the VLC used elsewhere, e.g. with Windows and other Linux distros? Do those other distros use QT or GTK?

Philosophy lecture:

reducing the package from around 9MB to 2.6MB

.
Are you teasing me, here, ttuuxxx?

Maybe fifty years ago, when I first began using computers, that statement would have held some significance, but when one is routinely installing Linux on PIII's with half a gigabyte of memory, the distinction between nine megabytes and three megabytes is utterly insignificant.

Even the smallest USB flash memory stick, today, is a gigabyte in size.

Is there a real world testing scenario that can measure a significant time difference between application 1a, requiring 9 megabytes, and application 1b requiring 3 megabytes? Do you suppose that when browser ABC is loaded into memory, requiring 10 seconds, and browser DEF is loaded into memory, requiring 7 seconds, that then, browser ABC will turn out to have 6 megabytes more in size than browser DEF?

When I run SeaMonkey (1.1.13) on Windows 98 it takes 2 seconds to load.
When I run SeaMonkey (2.0.11) on Linux, it takes 7 seconds to load.

Do you imagine that the explanation for the difference in time between the loading of these two Mozilla browsers has something to do with the dramatically increased SIZE of the newer Mozilla browser?

Well, maybe you are correct, and I am wrong, what do I know? nothing.

In my opinion, as one wholly ignorant, size has very little to do with this impressive delay in loading the browser under Linux. I should compare the two versions with XP. My guess is that they will both take about the same time to load. In other words, without understanding anything at all about the design of the OS, I imagine that the reason for the much faster instantiation of Sea Monkey on Win 98 compared with Linux or XP, is not because the older, obsolete Sea Monkey is so much smaller in size than more recent, more bloated, versions of the same browser, but rather because the obsolete operating system responds to the user's input far more efficiently. Compare the time needed to fly from Sydney to Perth today, versus ten years ago--the airplanes are slicker and better than ten years ago, but the delay getting through security adds an extra hour to the total travel time.

I have read, often on the internet, how much FASTER Chrome is, than Firefox. How much faster Midori is, than Konqueror.

NONSENSE.

In my testing, with this real world application, internet radio stations, the times needed for HEARING the music played, upon clicking on one of the three non-proprietary formats: mp3, ogg, or aac+, is the same, for Chrome and FireFox, while Konqueror, king of bloat, is measurably FASTER. "Light weight" Midori, brain dead, waits for the user to signal with a second click of the mouse, because, unlike all the other browsers, it has no facility to remember to always forward the input to VLC, and thus demands that the user instruct it, every time it is invoked.
http://www.listenlive.eu/classical.html

How often have you read that Opera is lightweight and FAST?
I encounter such assertions daily, yet, in my experience, with the internet radio station testing algorithm, Opera is consistently 20% slower than Firefox.

So, conclusion, in my opinion, SIZE is relatively insignificant, in estimating performance. Saving a handful of megabytes, in an environment addressing gigabytes, is a bit like saving pennies by turning off the engine at a red light, but spending a fortune on fuel, because of inefficiencies in the engine design.

Thanks again for your helpful messages.

CAI ENG

Posted: **Tue 18 Jan 2011, 09:50**

Hi caieng size does mater, Here a prime example, during the 5.2 build the iso went over 136MB threshold and that lead to, puppy no longer running 100% in ram. We worked hard trying to find 1 MB we could free the iso. Not an easy task.

Another example some things are downloaded over 1000+ times, multiply that by 6-7MB your now talking 6-7GB on just one app, The thing is most server host really hate high bandwidths being used, my old host 2yrs ago, actually pause my account until the end of the month because I went over 5GB in a month. Every MB saved leaves room for others and room to grow.

Browser size isn't related to startup times, usually some have plugins/themes etc which take time to load. Then it depends on the architecture it was compiled as, If you download the latest Firefox from mozilla and then you compare it to one I or Barry compiled, you'll notice its usually 2-3MB smaller and loads much quicker and is more stable, the reason why, is that mozilla uses the latest just about everything when they compile and they also include a couple gnome&dbus libs that puppy doesn't provide (other than puppy 5 and 2.14X).

Startups of new browser tend to take a bit long because they have more security updates and newer larger backends. But usually page rendering is quicker than previous versions.

If you try those radio stations links I posted on 5.2 your notice Mplayer takes about 10X longer to load them than the GTKVLC does. With puppy size is everything, especially when building a release version.
Plus puppy still has a lot of dialup users, and a 6MB saving is like 1hr of download time.
ttuuxxx

Posted: **Tue 18 Jan 2011, 12:38**

Thank you for this message, ttuuxxx.
Some things are a bit clearer, now.

size does mater, Here a prime example, during the 5.2 build the iso went over 136MB threshold and that lead to, puppy no longer running 100% in ram.

I am lost. Why is there a 136 MB threshold? What happens at 137 MB? What is so special about 136 MB? Does it mean that Puppy runs as fast in a machine with 137 MB as one with 1 GB RAM? What about dual channel versus single channel RAM? What does the 5.2 build have to do with Wary 5.0?

You can see that I remain very confused.....haha.

We worked hard trying to find 1 MB we could free the iso. Not an easy task.

Wow. I find MOST of Puppy (or any other Linux version) to be utterly useless. I would have difficulty finding 136 MB to KEEP. I envision all the Linuxes as museums filled up with old "art", consisting of 6 year old finger painting, but grasped tightly as though precious masterpieces.
grep
finger
kill
emacs
holy cow.
permissions
passwords,
unbelievable amount of garbage....
mount???

Can you imagine, during installation, Puppy asks me where to find the cdrom that Puppy used to create the program that asks me where the cdrom is located.......
And you have trouble finding dead wood to chop out?

Puppy performs an installation, and then, promptly loses all the information asked during the installation, requiring the user to reenter it all over again, after rebooting.... Are you sure that it is difficult to get rid of the junk?

Why not discard the awful, default, streaming audio players, wouldn't that free up several megabytes?

Another example some things are downloaded over 1000+ times, multiply that by 6-7MB your now talking 6-7GB on just one app, The thing is most server host really hate high bandwidths being used, my old host 2yrs ago, actually pause my account until the end of the month because I went over 5GB in a month. Every MB saved leaves room for others and room to grow.

Wow. I really need to improve my communication skills. It is obvious from this rejoinder, ttuuxxx, that you and I are not on the same wavelength, at all.

I HATE downloading components of the operating system. It is absurd to have a cdrom, capacity 0.7 GB, but containing less than 0.2 GB, a circumstance which demands that the user waste his/her time and money and bandwidth downloading 0.5 GB of data, WHICH COULD, be sitting on the half empty CDROM. Think of the disincentive the current approach offers to those who would otherwise be inclined to purchase a CDROM with Puppy Wary.....

Plus puppy still has a lot of dialup users, and a 6MB saving is like 1hr of download time.

Ok.
let's reflect on that notion, for a minute....

umm,
let's see: 56kilobit/second modem, divided by 8 = 7kilobytes/sec, so how many seconds are required to download 7 megabytes? answer: 1000 seconds, i.e. 20 minutes.

Allow me to ask this question: China has lots of bicycles. Maybe as many bicycles as people. Certainly MORE bicycles today than 40 years ago.

Should the Chinese design their urban infrastructure to accommodate these bicycles, rather than automobiles? More salient perhaps, should the Chinese favor bicycles over automobiles, as a means of interurban transportation?

There is much utility in having a small, lightweight distribution. If Puppy were not ALSO so excellent in detecting OLD hardware, however, I would not be interested in Puppy, because it lacks VLC, i.e. for me, it is TOO LIGHT. It is a bicycle, a good bicycle, but I require a volkswagon (VLC).

One solution, instead of linking up with Ubuntu, (of all the crazy ideas....) bloatware second only to lint, why not generate a genuine VLC based puppy wary? The existing distros, and even smaller versions, can easily remain, for those who use transportation only to fetch one bottle of milk from the store a block down the road, once a week.

One size doesn't fit all, unlike socks. Puppy is already available in several different flavours, adding another, "full featured" version, would unclutter the server, since folks would not need to use "synaptic" to get the real McCoy.

CAI ENG

Posted: **Tue 18 Jan 2011, 13:02**

caieng if your using Wary 5, I made a the latest VLC for that also, about 2 weeks ago, with just about every missing lib. So just install that and be happy, lol just install the VLC and QT libs.
http://www.smokey01.com/ttuuxxx/Wary/So ... 5-i386.pet
and
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dis ... 3-1-w5.pet
ttuuxxx

Posted: **Tue 18 Jan 2011, 17:56**

To caieng,

VLC-GTK is just a tiny menu for any VLC versions that have no frontend (menus)..

VLC-GTK was originally made by me, for myself, so I could have a usable media player, less than 2mb, which loads and works very fast, even on my old PC... And in VMware...

VLC-GTK is not a standard puppy app, just an additional download IF anyone wants it.
If you don't like, don't use it.

VLC-GTK is just a frontend/interface for VLC.... It does not have as many features as the full QT interface, which is most widely used with VLC, but it has most features to make it usable for common tasks and is only about 0.01% of the size of the QT frontend..

But if you don't really mind bloat (or 'fully featured', depending on your view and needs) you can download the full VLC and QT interface, from the links ttuuxxx gave you above.

Having the option of a working VLC package in under 10mb (or even 2mb, if you like), is an option - a good option - if you have limited disk space, CPU speed or RAM (or all of these)

Don't get so down about Puppy - the more you learn about Puppy, the more you will learn about what can be done with it.

http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html - use this link to search for what you want... Or this: http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppySites

Posted: **Tue 18 Jan 2011, 17:58**

Thank you ttuuxxx, I downloaded and installed per your well written instructions.

Good, so next, I suppose, is to test it:

voila!
puff!

OOPS.

still no response. I know that VLC has been acknowledged by the OS because the icon is visible on clicking on menu. Ditto for reboot. No luck....

I am stuck... browser works fine, but VLC does not get started.

CAI ENG

Posted: **Tue 18 Jan 2011, 21:15**

After downloading the two files, linked to by ttuuxxx, the icon for the speaker, representing volume, was disabled, with a large x appearing through the speaker. I succeeded in removing this lock, by running a program called alsa sound wizard, located in the main menu, lower left corner. However, I still have no music, upon evoking one of the three symbols, (mp3, aac+, or ogg) representing non-proprietary, streaming audio formats.

Just to clarify, VLC is installed, it can be raised by the user. It simply is disconnected from the SeaMonkey browser. When I go to the menu option "Edit" "Preferences" "Browser" "helper applications", and click on "audio/mpegurl", or "audio/x-scpls", both of which would normally reveal, upon clicking the mouse, "VLC", either as the default, or, at least as an option. However, VLC does not appear for either mpegurl or x-scpls formats, and that explains why no music is heard......

So, now we have a very precise question: How does one enable these two protocols, with any browser, need not be SeaMonkey, though, as mentioned earlier, SeaMonkey is my preferred browser....

CAI ENG

Posted: **Wed 19 Jan 2011, 18:32**

ttuuxxx wrote:
well vlc is not a html browser, that's web page not a media link, Please next time post the link, its easier to copy and paste than to enter it manually,
try this
First radio link on the left hand side.
ttuuxxx

A bit late, but thanks for your kind help ttuuxxx!
Forgive me my ignorance, I'm just starting to look into streaming web media.
Never had a need for them, but now my satellite tv provider removed my favourite station from their offer. So I'm trying to find out how to watch this station from the web....

Before I read your post here, I had already downloaded your Media Url Sniffer ( Streamsniff pet 2009), so at least I'm beginning to see the light

Thanks again!

Posted: **Sun 23 Jan 2011, 22:23**

updated to 2.3, see main post

Posted: **Sun 23 Jan 2011, 22:43**

Wrong year in the topic name

Posted: **Sun 23 Jan 2011, 22:45**

dejan555 wrote:Wrong year in the topic name

damn

Posted: **Sat 21 Jul 2012, 17:54**

maybe Thunor can add goingnuts's swallow widget to gtkdialog4.
... in the mean time, here is a way to get the controls and video in the same window:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 066#636066

Posted: **Wed 01 Aug 2012, 13:39**

VLC-GTK updated to 2.4, download.
----------------------------------

VLC-GTK, recent changelog:

Code: Select all

- VLC-GTK 2.4 
- now requires rtmpdump for some streams
- updated: better adding and listing of favourite radio/tv streams
- updated: improved restarting of GUI when saving/deleting favourite streams
- updated: added many new radio stations
- updated: improved play_fave function, added support for rtmpdump streams in fave list
- updated: added live TV stations, depend on rtmpdump:
		- Al Jazeera, RT News, CSPAN, France24, MSNBC, ESPN, FOX, CNN, others
- fixed: added msg if rtmpdump is needed for stream, but not installed
- fixed: clean up list of favourited radio/tv streams

- VLC-GTK 2.3.9
- fixed immediate playback of dirs, if dir is only option given
- faster disabling of OSC GUI
- better DVD, VCD handling, added dialog
- small code cleanups

- VLC-GTK 2.3.7:
- better disc checking for DVDs and CDs
- faster gtkdialog exec
- small fix for VCD playback
- make file>open much easier, always go to dir of last played stuff

- VLC-GTK 2.3.6
	- main GUI: now supports pmusic_CD, instead of pCD (for audio CDs)
	- on-screen controls: only resize/move video playback window if fullscreen 'off', in main GUI

- VLC-GTK 2.3.5:
	- fix: detect dual screen displays, then resize/locate window accordingly (very basic/hacky but works)
	- fix: better DVD, VCD and Audio CD playback
	- fix: vlc-gtk-btns now faster, more reliable
	- fix: added VLC icon to GUI <window>
	- fix: code cleanups, added kill_vlc function, etc
	- added: option to disable on screen controls to main GUI, under 'Controls' tab

- VLC-GTK 2.3.3
- fixed: `vlc-gtk "FILE"` now plays FILE straight away
- fixed --vout, --vol, --dolby options
- fixed default options (on top=true, default video out=x11)
- commented out OSD placement options (not working)
- speed improvements:
	- now uses 'case', not 'if'
	- writes GUI to file before it loads

- VLC-GTK 2.3.2 (thanks to thunor)
- fixed enable/disable of playback buttons
- fixed GUI resize issue, fixed "general settings" and "streams" tabs
- fixed checking of installed gtkdialog verion in vlc-gtk,vlc-gtk-btns
- fixed --play command, if it fails, loads saved settings and return main menu
- updated --dir command, now loads the dir and starts playback immediately
- fixed --dir command, if it fails, loads saved settings and return main menu
- fixed fixed FILE and DIR inputs if file given was empty
- fixed play_dir function, proper dir exist test
- fixed on screen controls, more reliable when playing directories
- added more radio stations
- vlc-gtk-btns does not return to main window, when invoked with --play option
- updated VLC-GTK ROX-App, now forces windowed mode
- minor code cleanups

- VLC-GTK to 2.3.1
- kill 'vlc_nogui' as well as vlc
- pass fullscreen setting onto vlc-gtk-btns, so it know whether or not to resize playback window on first load
- disabled fullscreen by default
- cleaner terminal output
- changed all instances of '/root/' to '$HOME/'
- the on screen controls:
	- less time skipped with each SKIP button press (now only 1min)
	- hides toggle subtitle button for newer VLC (options changed)
	- only run resize_playback function if not fullscreen at startup 
	- run resize_playback twice - required for large res files
	- updated tooltips

Posted: **Wed 01 Aug 2012, 23:21**

can someone supply us a newer vlc (without gui)?

Posted: **Thu 02 Aug 2012, 15:42**

bark_bark_bark wrote:can someone supply us a newer vlc (without gui)?

this is the newest I know of: http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dis ... 1.5-w5.pet
(the same already in akita)

Posted: **Mon 13 Aug 2012, 14:40**

VLC-GTK updated to 2.4.4 - see main post for download.

Changelog VLC-GTK 2.4.4:

Code: Select all

- VLC-GTK to 2.4.4
	- improved record_fave func: now you can record any stream in the fave list
	- updated some GUI tooltips to include info about stream downloads
	- added working subtitle delay support

- VLC-GTK 2.4.3
	- fixed Play URL + add to faves, use only play_url OR write_fave, only 1 GUI instance
	- dont start playback until fave stream is added
	- fixed deleted streams showing in list if last played stream
	- fixed delete_fave, always select correct streams
	- quit btn no longer kills playback (use 'Stop Playback' btn)
	- fixed: creation of tmp files for non root users - added username to filenames
	- fixed: never kill/interrupt playback when downloading stream
	- added: more TV streams to list, National Geographic

- VLC-GTK 2.4.2
	- added 'record stream' button, next to 'play fave' button
	- 'record stream' func outputs stream to uniquely named flv file in $HOME
	- shows Xdialog tailbox with streams download progress
	- fixes in play_file func, show last used tab

- VLC-GTK 2.4.1
	- added, vlc-gtk-btns: added crop and aspect ratio buttons, moved buttons, updated tooltips
	- added many more TV streams, radio streams and fixes
	- return to previous tab and/or stream, after playback
	- fixed, network options to rtmpdump streams, includes stream title
	- fixed, support playback of actual rtmpdump commands using 'Play URL' button
	- fixed selection of chosen stream in play_fave
	- fixed, re-organised GUI, show more favourites in the list, fixed GUI scaling
	- updated tooltips for URL input, to tell about rtmpdump cmds
	- improved play_fave function: support for rtmpdump streams in fave list
	- added msg if rtmpdump is needed, but not installed
	- added live TV stations, depend on rtmpdump:
			- Al Jazeera, RT News, CSPAN, France24, MSNBC, ESPN, FOX, CNN, Dave, others

Posted: **Wed 29 Aug 2012, 14:31**

VLC-GTK updated to 2.4.6 - see main post for download.

Changelog 2.4.6

Code: Select all

- VLC-GTK 2.4.6
	- show fave stream list in on screen controls (OSC) during stream playback, other related fixes

- VLC-GTK 2.4.5
	- xv (Xvideo) now default video output
	- fixed default tab selection on GUI restart
	- added VLC version info to top-right of GUI
	- removed hidden FILE_OPEN button at top of GUI

Posted: **Mon 24 Sep 2012, 09:54**

VLC-GTK updated to 2.5 - see main post for download.

Changelog

Code: Select all

- VLC-GTK 2.5:
	- support play youtube URLs, in chosen quality
	- support record youtube URLs as 360p flv, gets filename from URL, user can edit befor saving
	- fixes for immediate playback in CLI interface
	- fixes for youtube playback and download
	- fixed subtitles delay option
	- fixed GUI info when saving a fave stream
	- fix record stream btn now accepts any fave stream or URL, fixes for naming streams $STREAM_FILE
	- lots of fixes in GUI layout, other code clean ups
	- added network options: http and mms caching, ipv4/ipv6, youtube quality 
	- added advanced options: ffmpeg direct output, sub-pictures
	- added 'Edit' rc file button, moved 'Save' button
	- added OSD options: OSD timeout
	- updated help info, tooltips, more info about recording streams
	- can be called as /usr/bin/pupvlc, will show up as PupVLC

- VLC-GTK 2.4.9: 
	- fixed immediate playback of `vlc-gtk [file/dir/url/rtmpdump]`
	- update: always playback immediately if 1st CLI option is a file/dir/url/rtmpdump
	- fix: the cmd `vlc-gtk [URL]` will now play URL immediately
	- fix: the cmd `vlc-gtk [rtmpdump cmd]` will now playback cmd immediately
	- fix: do not ignore other CLI options if playback is immediate
	- fix: VLC-GTK, OSC btn loads either stream or file OSC
	
-  VLC-GTK 2.4.8
	- fixed: added user options ($C) to all vlc cmds, (now includes streams, fave streams, stream dwnlds)
	- fixes for record_fave func in debug mode
	- fixed 'logfile' option, added --file-logging and others
	- updated: moved all vlc cmds into new func 'run_vlc' -  handles running the actual vlc commands
	- added: new 'OSC' button at bottom of main GUI: launch OSC if playback running without it
	- more cleanups in vlc-gtk and vlc-gtk-btns
		
- VLC-GTK 2.4.7
	- fixed, video title positioning
	- new 'Help' tab, info about VLC-GTK
	- new 'Equalizer' setting in 'Audio' tab
	- new 'Advanced' tab, with new options:
			- Command line: add any VLC cli options you know
			- Debug: load up a debugger GUI to edit/check vlc cmds
			- Logfile: choose the log file for vlc
			- FFmpeg fast: speed hacks for playback (faster, but maybe buggier)

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

VLC-GTK 2.8.1 (Oct 3rd, 2017)

additional info:

VLC-GTK 2.4

VLC-GTK 2.4.4

vlc-gtk 2.4.6

Re: vlc-gtk 2.4.6