Same old same old

[sickgut]

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69475

hi puppyiso

do you think pussy is innovative? ive started with a debian base so we have good apt-get package management and then tried to make the debian work like puppy, a beta preview will be uploaded in a few days if you like to look at it

i personally feel there is too much labour wasted on making pets for puppy than spending the time on the OS itself, and with every new release of puppy there needs to be made a new repo of pets for it, this is why ive incorporated decent package management into the OS, in future versions the packages that get installed will be slimmed to the same size as current puppy pets automatically.

[oui]

Hi Sickgut

there is too much labour wasted on making pets for puppy than spending the time on the OS itself

I don't think so: as it is without any problem possible to use each *.deb as substitute of a *.pet there is in a lot of cases not useful any more to make a *.pet at all...

Typical example (one under a lot of more):

- leafpad!

That is the same with *.tar.gz's (seamonkey ).

The only one problem is, that each version of puppy is different and don't includes the same libraries so that a lot of installations can't have success in different puplets or puppies...

Puppy would only need a good script to check before the installation witch dependencies are not installed and the major problems would not continue to be any more!

and for the last very difficult cases you need some one being interesting to really shrink with comprehension (it is not possible automatically) the complete installation with dependencies to a *.pet or *.sfs, especially in case of major application of the KDE not available in the same form for other environments (Konqueror, K0ffice and graphic applications, Kdenlive, Rosegarden and other music applications, etc....). Puppy can, sorry, not propose much from this part of Linux being preferred by Slackware, the country of Linux where Puppy is out coming, although some of there have no really equivalent in not KDE systems!

but I am sorry, it is not realist to want to install parts of KDE or modern versions of Qemu etc. using «synaptic»...

[puppyiso]

I agree with you, oui

Dpup, Spup etc all had same idea of using other repositories.

We can also use deb2pet etc but all these method don't always work.

I went over to download some Ubuntu files but I got overwhelmed by the confusing number of dependencies along with the file.

Some deb file never worked after conversion.

Wine? Some work some don't.(mostly don't) Vmware? tooooo slow.

Some of puppy users have ability to compile source code or do all kinds of magic things but not everyone.

Some believe in intrinsic value of computing but not everyone.

Some like me just turn on and do what they need to do without black magic of compling, scripting thing.

[puppyiso]

I do like the idea of concentrating effort to develop the core part of puppy OS however, it is a problem if pet package is totally ignored.

It's like buying a car without doors, windows, tires, mirrors and airbag etc.
If you buy a car with only engine and steering wheel and frame chase, how inconvenient it is to buy rest of it?

Besides, I don't like Puppy being parasite to other distros.
Sneak into other repository and download some files without knowing they gonna work?

What a waste of time and disgrace to Puppy!

(On the other hand, I might opened another can of worms.)

[sickgut]

I agree with you, oui

Dpup, Spup etc all had same idea of using other repositories.

We can also use deb2pet etc but all these method don't always work.

I went over to download some Ubuntu files but I got overwhelmed by the confusing number of dependencies along with the file.

Some deb file never worked after conversion.

Wine? Some work some don't.(mostly don't) Vmware? tooooo slow.

Some of puppy users have ability to compile source code or do all kinds of magic things but not everyone.

Some believe in intrinsic value of computing but not everyone.

Some like me just turn on and do what they need to do without black magic of compling, scripting thing.

there is a vast difference between an OS like dpup or lupu etc that accesses these repositories and can install them but not every one of them works, and a truly compatible OS that can install anything you want from these repos and 100% of the packages will work 100% of the time. This is why i made pussy, it is 100% debian compatible and so there is no need for devs to spend time making pets at all..

[quote:

The only one problem is, that each version of puppy is different and don't includes the same libraries so that a lot of installations can't have success in different puplets or puppies...

Puppy would only need a good script to check before the installation witch dependencies are not installed and the major problems would not continue to be any more!

and for the last very difficult cases you need some one being interesting to really shrink with comprehension (it is not possible automatically) the complete installation with dependencies to a *.pet or *.sfs, especially in case of major application of the KDE not available in the same form for other environments (Konqueror, K0ffice and graphic applications, Kdenlive, Rosegarden and other music applications, etc....). Puppy can, sorry, not propose much from this part of Linux being preferred by Slackware, the country of Linux where Puppy is out coming, although some of there have no really equivalent in not KDE systems!

but I am sorry, it is not realist to want to install parts of KDE or modern versions of Qemu etc. using «synaptic»...

end quote.]

there is also auto slimming which can be done by deleting common unused dirs and also its possible to add scripts in a control panel that run after you apt get something like KDE that will remove all unwanted bloat quickly and safely, to make one of these scripts yu download KDE or whatever then make a list of the unwanted files and make a script to delete them, then include the script in the control panel on the next version.

[sickgut]

I agree with you, oui

Dpup, Spup etc all had same idea of using other repositories.

We can also use deb2pet etc but all these method don't always work.

I went over to download some Ubuntu files but I got overwhelmed by the confusing number of dependencies along with the file.

Some deb file never worked after conversion.

Wine? Some work some don't.(mostly don't) Vmware? tooooo slow.

Some of puppy users have ability to compile source code or do all kinds of magic things but not everyone.

Some believe in intrinsic value of computing but not everyone.

Some like me just turn on and do what they need to do without black magic of compling, scripting thing.

there is a vast difference between an OS like dpup or lupu etc that accesses these repositories and can install them but not every one of them works, and a truly compatible OS that can install anything you want from these repos and 100% of the packages will work 100% of the time. This is why i made pussy, it is 100% debian compatible and so there is no need for devs to spend time making pets at all..

[quote:

The only one problem is, that each version of puppy is different and don't includes the same libraries so that a lot of installations can't have success in different puplets or puppies...

Puppy would only need a good script to check before the installation witch dependencies are not installed and the major problems would not continue to be any more!

and for the last very difficult cases you need some one being interesting to really shrink with comprehension (it is not possible automatically) the complete installation with dependencies to a *.pet or *.sfs, especially in case of major application of the KDE not available in the same form for other environments (Konqueror, K0ffice and graphic applications, Kdenlive, Rosegarden and other music applications, etc....). Puppy can, sorry, not propose much from this part of Linux being preferred by Slackware, the country of Linux where Puppy is out coming, although some of there have no really equivalent in not KDE systems!

but I am sorry, it is not realist to want to install parts of KDE or modern versions of Qemu etc. using «synaptic»...

end quote.]

there is also auto slimming which can be done by deleting common unused dirs and also its possible to add scripts in a control panel that run after you apt get something like KDE that will remove all unwanted bloat quickly and safely, to make one of these scripts yu download KDE or whatever then make a list of the unwanted files and make a script to delete them, then include the script in the control panel on the next version.

[sickgut]

I do like the idea of concentrating effort to develop the core part of puppy OS however, it is a problem if pet package is totally ignored.

It's like buying a car without doors, windows, tires, mirrors and airbag etc.
If you buy a car with only engine and steering wheel and frame chase, how inconvenient it is to buy rest of it?

Besides, I don't like Puppy being parasite to other distros.
Sneak into other repository and download some files without knowing they gonna work?

What a waste of time and disgrace to Puppy!

(On the other hand, I might opened another can of worms.)

i know ive already said this but the pussy linux i made will work 100% of the time with 100% of the packages in the debian repos. There is no "not knowing if its going to work" about it at all.

[puppyiso]

sickgut, I haven't tried your Puppy yet. I didn't know that is 100% Debian compatible.

I just got impression from others claiming comparability but not quite true.

I have tried almost all puppies I could get. My first delight was Shinobar's 431 with Korean support but it has a little Japanese flavor(menu, browser) and couldn't use wings 3D.

So I moved on to Snowpup 18 which serves both of my needs well.

In between, I had tried alot. But none served my 2 needs quite well.

Yours?, I couldn't download. Hence, no idea it's 100% compatable. Not only yours but many many recent ones were unavailable.

(I feel left alone when everyone else said they got them but not me.. )

I did try other depository oriented puppies. I got lost what to download and what sequence I should install all the dependencies.


Even some pets gave me trouble after installation.

I had to run find utility to "seek" them out to use. OS itself is important but so is PET that need to be in order.

Solidiers would really hate the moment when they need to sort out to find needed caliber bullets in a war zone.

Puppy OS and PET should go hand in hand.

Please developers, specify what PETs are compatible with their Puppies!!!![/b]

[sickgut]

@ puppyiso

why couldnt you download, is it lack of a decent personal internet connection?

i know what its like to have dialup or something, if your having this problem then let me know what it is you need to download and ill sent you a dvd -r with it all on. this will be good practice for me as i plan on shipping my distros live cds in the mail. i wont charge you anything ofcause.

when someone makes a pupplet with alot of added stuff it breaks compatibility with the pets in its official repo and its hard to tell what ones wont work.

[puppyiso]

I don't think it's the internet connection since I download gigabytes of linux distros from the distrowatch daily.

Hard drive is always full so I burn DVDs daily.(Distro addict here)

I leave my computer on to download distros weighting 3, 4 GB each.

I get 300k/sec. The problem is Chinese government who tries to control internet traffic.

Some file servers such as filesonic etc are restricted. We cannot use facebook, youtube etc.

Somehow non censor designated sites are wrongly blocked.

Or maybe it's just a pure bad luck when I tried to download.

Please provide the link once more. I will try again.

If still not good, I will PM you.

By the way, you'd better not write the P***y name on the disc or the envelop. Chinese officials do censor in and out going emails and regular mails and posts.

This country is so stupid to check every CD crossing the border.

Can you believe this? Any one can carry high capacity USB ot portable HD or notebook and store billions of porn films.

Some just use online storage and soon it will be cloud century.

Chinese cannot check them but check CDs DVDs.

What a joke!

Pls be warned that this primitive government policy do exist here.

I don't want to practice my Chinese against the dumb folks at the police station who doesn't know the difference btwn Linux and Windows and P***y is not what they think.

I don't want them to touch your DVD with their nose picked fingers and once in a blue moon washed hands.

Name it something like "US loves China" or "I love China" or "God bless China" etc.

Or put warning"opening this DVD maybe harmful to your health"

Let's first try the link. Thank you.

[puppyiso]

when someone makes a pupplet with alot of added stuff it breaks compatibility with the pets in its official repo and its hard to tell what ones wont work.

There are many kinds of Puppies here.

When people download pets, they need to know if the pets gonna work in their Puppy version.

Some pets are for Wary, some are for Lupu, and some are for others.

Why not add a line of description that says all Wary PETs are supposed to work with this Puppy or something like that.

Some may have a better idea to cleafy this problem.

Experiencing problems when installed a bunch of different Audacity, I had to suggest that we need a classification system or match making system something.

I don't mean to add any more burden to the developers but it is confusing to see if the PET or SFS works with the puppy I use.

Any idea? Any one?

[saintless]

Puppyiso, in the attached archive is a torrent file which exists only on my PC. Open it with Ktorrent or another torrent program and enable DHT.
Lets see if you can download it this way.

Here is the link to pussy linux site:
http://www.pussypussypussy.info/linux/

[puppyiso]

Thank you.

I will try right after I finish downloading 5 huge distros going on at the moment.

Thanks alot.

[saintless]

You are welcome, puppyiso, my computer is on 24 hours. No hurry

[8-bit]

when someone makes a pupplet with alot of added stuff it breaks compatibility with the pets in its official repo and its hard to tell what ones wont work.

There are many kinds of Puppies here.

When people download pets, they need to know if the pets gonna work in their Puppy version.

Some pets are for Wary, some are for Lupu, and some are for others.

Why not add a line of description that says all Wary PETs are supposed to work with this Puppy or something like that.

Some may have a better idea to cleafy this problem.

Experiencing problems when installed a bunch of different Audacity, I had to suggest that we need a classification system or match making system something.

I don't mean to add any more burden to the developers but it is confusing to see if the PET or SFS works with the puppy I use.

Any idea? Any one?

You missed the fact that not all puppy versions have the needed dependencies of some of those PET packages.
And as we all know, tracking down dependencies for an application can be a real pain.
It is often forgot when a PET is made that it should be tried on a clean boot of Puppy with pfix=ram.
Then the PET creator will know if he should include those dependencies in the PET package.
If someone knows a better way of doing that , chime in.

[oui]

You missed the fact that not all puppy versions have the needed dependencies of some of those PET packages.
And as we all know, tracking down dependencies for an application can be a real pain.

only if you do that step by step from hand!

but in the description of deb's the dependencies are very well documented and computers can track down themself! why will you do step by step yourself a job being better and faster by a computer

puppy has already a routine to check dependencies

it has to be enlarged to *.deb's and only to take the imperative packages and not the others

alternative way we would need a kind of «dselect» for puppy (or dselect in puppy!) as the minimum comfort to use the big Debian or Ubuntu free depositories. dselect works in CLI.

dselect is small (dselect for lenny 783 kb) and needs only a few dependencies. it perhaps needs the full dpkg (2301 kb) instead of the small and limited one of busy box (for having all implemented functions)...

it starts in wary with devx, needs some files in /etc/apt as well as in /var/lib/ especially a subdir /var/lib/dpkg/ with some files ... see error messages!

dselect is debian's interface to dpkg. Predating Apt, it could search CD-ROMs, FTP sites, websites, and other sources for appropriately structured package files, and allowed the user to select which packages they wanted to install.

The part that is difficult for many people is the Selection process. Navigating the selection process is easy, but underdocumented. The key is to remember that / searches, and \ repeats the search. + adds a package, - removes a package. the = key will mark a package as held. A lot of information is crammed into columns that are often too small to display everything, and the packages are not necessarially intuitively ordered, making many people dislike this program (especially since there are around 10,000-15,000 packages to wade through).

read more here and there

REEDITED at 07:36 PM

[puppyiso]

saintless, I have downloaded successfully. Thank you.

But the real problem was and is that the "Live" Option gives me a hang and the "fail safe"option gives me no usable menu or icons at all.

It may be my computer that has too little RAM memory.

I think I have to pass.

[saintless]

saintless, I have downloaded successfully. Thank you.

But the real problem was and is that the "Live" Option gives me a hang and the "fail safe"option gives me no usable menu or icons at all.

It may be my computer that has too little RAM memory.

I think I have to pass.

Puppyiso, I run Live option and frugal on a PC with 128 Mb Ram. I'm sure the problem is somewhere else and sickgut will help you to solve it.
You can click on Rox-filler background from the Start menu (Meow menu) and the desktop icons will appear. You will find entries for all the programs in start menu as well.
See this topic and if you like write there, so we can find a solution:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69475

[sickgut]

Innovative ones?

I and most others use only handful of apps. Puppy's unnecessay icons on screen should go.

Don't we learn from Tinycore or Austrumi(ealier version) or SliTaz?

Anyway, we use only a few tools. I use only 4. Rest of tools should be hiding from my eyes. They are visual pollution, No?

Gimp, Wings, Abi and Chrome.

I visit only 4 sites-Naver, Murga-linux.com/puppy, distrowatch and occasional interest site(s).

And the face work?
Well, we need surgeons here. People use ugliest icons and unbearable wallpapers. I always get puppy pictures from the internet just to switch those graphically disabled shockingly dumb puppy images.

I am talking about INNOVATIVE connvenient UI and UX like one click to the internet or better yet, auto internet connection. Just how many menus and clicks are needed to get on the internet?

I have no programming skill but I do believe I can contribute ideas.]

Simple elegant and innovative. Puppy should be like that. Light and small and happy.

hi Puppyiso,

Personally what i have found to be innovative is:

Puppeee version 1, Fluppy by jemimah, its awesome how one person can make something 10 times better than a team at Asus did when they make the linux for their EeePC series, its pure gold.... except maybe lots of pink flamingoes and size 14 font in leafpad isnt everyones idea of style......

I believe the whole Dpup and Lupu thing was a huge mistake, as it didnt really add any extra compatibility with the debian and ubuntu repos as they still used the normal Puppy kernel and this causes the compatibility problems, a normal puppy is just as compatible with these repos.... how compatible? hardly at all .... Also since Puppy went Lupu i see plastered all over the internet: Puppy, just another Ubuntu distro....

Regarding internet connectivity, with the latest Pussy if you use ethernet then you are automatically connected to the internet, it autodetects at start up and once your in pussy you dont even need to click connect or anything, it just works.

I think its better to completely leave out artwork rather than include crappy artwork or something that is so niche that it will annoy as many people as would think it cool. I think if i cant find a decent background in the next edition of my OS ill just leave it blank.

Puppy tries to appeal to the most amount of people and have the most average set of apps that it presumes the average user would like, specifically newbie users. I dont think the normal set of apps in puppy would appeal to an advanced user like yourself....
this is why basicly every Puppy expert generally makes their own Pupplets, one to release to the community which is usually the same old same old, and one to use personally, which like you said might only have a few apps.....

The apps i use: nano, seamonkey, virtualbox, transmission, mplayer and the ssh and ftp console commands.

Altho puppy has been the only OS i have recommended and installed on peoples computers there are some things that really annoy me:

The xorg-high package almost always ends up getting installed, why isnt it in the ISO? I would prefer to have the ISO 20mb larger than have to download the ISO then download the xorg-high addon, and explaining to customers that you have to upgrade the OS to xorg-high so your opengl works, is a real pain.....

Puppy needs a functional browser included, it used to have seamonkey, this was great. Why is it an optional extra? is 20mb extra in the ISO really gonna kill people?

With Pupplets especially, its almost impossible to find and use their custom "propperly configured" kernel souces so that you can add drivers etc. Please, please, please... just have the devx and kernel sources as part of the ISO, even if you dont want them loaded in the OS the first time, just supply them in the main ISO so that they are there ready and waiting. Being able to compile something is not some optional extra for linux, it has to be there, especially for a distro that doesnt have 20,000 packages all ready to go in a repo like debian, ubuntu and fedora etc have.... in puppy, not every program you wanna use will have a compatible binary so you HAVE to compile it, this HAS to be in the OS or atleast ready to install off the ISO.

There is no telnet, ftp or nano type commands at the commandline, a linux needs this. This would maybe add 80kb to the size of the OS. There is no MIDI sound playback as standard, even windows 3.11 had this. No framebuffer console, this alienates advanced users from Puppy as you cant fit much on the screen when you really wanna do some serious work at the console, most other OSes let you even play videos at the console because of the framebuffer working at the console. This was removed to save space... how much space? may be a couple of MB at max. If you want to do anything with sound or video or games you always have to end up installing SDL and a host of other dependencies, for the sake of 5MB... please just have them there to begin with.

Im sorry if this sounds like a bitch session but what im getting at is if you have a 185mb ISO rather than 100MB you would be able to include all the techy stuff that advanced users need, as well as supplying all the video drivers and a decent browser and the ability for people to play their old music files and play the free Linux OpenGL FPS games or MMORPGs... all out the box....

For me, innovation would be:
A Puppy that is actually a complete OS out the box that doesnt demand you download the other half of the OS from the internet as soon as you set it up.

[oui]

A Puppy that is actually a complete OS out the box that doesnt demand you download the other half of the OS from the internet as soon as you set it up.

exactly what the French teacher Petihar did made for his 1., 2. and now 3. puplet for French school:

he distributes it as complete ZIP package with all what you need in his opinion in a French school adapted in French language:

- puppy
- and 3 or 4 *.sfs (java, amsn, wine, and in the last version seamonkey)