mtPaint development

[wjaguar]

There's a manual for mtPaint? Where is it? Should I Google for it?

For every mtPaint package on Sourceforge, there is corresponding handbook package. The one for 3.29 is here: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/mtpain ... k-3.29.zip (it is beta version, as is mtPaint 3.29 itself, so part of new features aren't documented yet).
And an online copy of the handbook for the current release version is always here: http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/handbook ... ap_00.html (the "Documentation" link from the main page).

[Lobster]

Things which users want to do with mtPaint, and for which mtPaint is currently deficient, or awkward to use

Thanks for all your points
Here is the sort of generic interface that was implemented by Mark Tyler. Notice the simplicity. This is a cut down version of Mtpaint.
http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/rgbpaint.html

and for those interested in online image programs this will be available in 4.2
http://www.openplatformeducation.org/webdesk.html

I probably make more use of Mtpaint then most and as you know made efforts to get Mtpaint used in Puppy rather than our previous default.. Most of our Puppy users are happy with its basic features.

As you feel the advanced features such as animation are easy to understand and implement, there is clearly nothing to get animated over.

So it is best I wish you good luck with any sensible improvements others can suggest.
For some reason I am reminded of this story . . .
http://www.short-funny-stories.com/funn ... ry-88.html

[wjaguar]

Here is the sort of generic interface that was implemented by Mark Tyler. Notice the simplicity. This is a cut down version of Mtpaint.

And here is the history behind it. Mark made RGBpaint for the OLPC project - and then, after the work was done, they decided to drop it and instead use some kludgy app written in Python. Notice the result: for all the work Mark had done on it - the "acceptance level" of 500 downloads in all.

As you feel the advanced features such as animation are easy to understand and implement, there is clearly nothing to get animated over.

Getting animation right needs some sizable improvements on the foundation level - the least of which is the multiframe save/load support. Trying to do something before the engine changes would amount to nothing but putting lipstick on a pig.
And these changes not only do not happen by magic - worse, they are interdependent, and to improve something, several other somethings need to be done first. Save/load infrastructure was rewritten in 3.10; image store and undo stack, in 3.20; rendering and layer handling, in 3.30; animation features depend on all of that. And when no one is contributing code, complex things cannot get done fast.

And this is why I'm less than concerned about the interface trivia. When the house is missing a wall, the color of wallpaper is not the biggest problem.

[ravensrest]

I'll add my vote for cut and paste operations carried out similarly to gimp. The ease with which I can do this in gimp is the primary reason I use it.
BS

[wjaguar]

I'll add my vote for cut and paste operations carried out similarly to gimp. The ease with which I can do this in gimp is the primary reason I use it.

Which specific features of "the GIMP's way" of doing cut and paste you do like?
(Myself, I'm not that familiar with details of GIMP's behaviour - I'm eating my own dog food and mtPaint serves for all my graphics-related needs.)

[HairyWill]

When using the polygon selection tool, is there anyway of undoing the last point(or more) selected?

[Lobster]

Trying to do something before the engine changes would amount to nothing but putting lipstick on a pig.

Well personally I wouldn't call mtpaint a pig
We have had this conversation before
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 327#147007

Looking forward to the changes you are implementing

[wjaguar]

When using the polygon selection tool, is there anyway of undoing the last point(or more) selected?

Not implemented yet.

[Plume]

I found in this topic how to read exif data using exiv2. That's fine. However, after saving a picture there is no more exif data. Is there a way to save exif data when saving the picture itself?

[MU]

oops, wrong thread, sorry
Mark

[wjaguar]

Is there a way to save exif data when saving the picture itself?

Currently, there isn't.
The reasons are twofold. One, I don't myself do digital photography, so I don't even know why preserving Exif data through image edits is needed at all (and "Just because!" isn't a good answer, because making that happen would be anything but trivial). And another, libjpeg which mtPaint uses to read and write JPEG files knows nothing at all about Exif, so I would need to link to a separate library for Exif handling - and as far as I know, there isn't any one such library accepted as a de facto standard. The most popular ones seem to be libexif and libexiv2 - and still, some distros ship with one, some with another, others with both, and still others with neither.

-= With best regards, Dmitry Groshev, maintainer of mtPaint =-

[Plume]

Thank's for your answer.
The most important information I would like to save is the date/time the photo was done.

[wjaguar]

The most important information I would like to save is the date/time the photo was done.

One possible workaround could be to extract Exif data from the file before edit ('exiv2 ex filename.jpg'), and put them back afterwards ('exiv2 in filename.jpg'), provided the filename stays the same.

[WhoDo]

The most important information I would like to save is the date/time the photo was done.

One possible workaround could be to extract Exif data from the file before edit ('exiv2 ex filename.jpg'), and put them back afterwards ('exiv2 in filename.jpg'), provided the filename stays the same.

That would require adding exiv from PETget in Puppy-4.2 as this was removed for space considerations.

Dmitry, is there any way to turn off the settings toolbar for first boot? It obscures the pulldown menu and doesn't help the program to look user-friendly.

Thanks

[wjaguar]

That would require adding exiv from PETget in Puppy-4.2 as this was removed for space considerations.

If user wants Exif handling, he can be expected to install the means of such handling.

Anyway, even if I'd added Exif support to mtPaint, it would still require the library implementing it - most likely, libexif (160 Kb). And adding it won't be a minor change either, for I would first have to devise the means for attaching generic data to undo frames, without wasting a lot of memory on it (given that there can be up to 100000 undo frames).

Dmitry, is there any way to turn off the settings toolbar for first boot? It obscures the pulldown menu and doesn't help the program to look user-friendly.

Given that in Puppy, user's home directory is always /root , you can just place an initial configfile ('.mtpaint') in there, with any changes to the default configuration you want. For the next feature release, I intend to add support for a systemwide "default configfile", but that still needs implementing.
But won't hiding the settings toolbar be counterproductive? People who do not read the manual (i.e., almost everyone) would then not even know where all the controls for drawing modes are.

[WhoDo]

Given that in Puppy, user's home directory is always /root , you can just place an initial configfile ('.mtpaint') in there, with any changes to the default configuration you want.

Got it, thanks.

But won't hiding the settings toolbar be counterproductive? People who do not read the manual (i.e., almost everyone) would then not even know where all the controls for drawing modes are.

You mean like we had in 3.21 for Puppy 4.1.2? Maybe forcing them to read the manual to find out is a good thing? I just found that the two windows on boot was confusing, especially since its position obscured the main menu. I just didn't know what I was supposed to do with the settings menu when it popped up. Maybe I'm just not a heavy-enough user for that.

[Flash]

There is no "Help" heading along the top of mtPaint, nor can I find mtPaint in Puppy's Help menu which links to online documentation for Puppy's included applications. How are the many Puppy users who are new to Linux and the open-source community supposed to know there is a manual for mtPaint, never mind where it is?

[WhoDo]

There is no "Help" heading along the top of mtPaint, nor can I find mtPaint in Puppy's Help menu which links to online documentation for Puppy's included applications. How are the many Puppy users who are new to Linux and the open-source community supposed to know there is a manual for mtPaint, never mind where it is?

There is on my mtPaint, Flash! It's at the far right on the drop down menu bar. The "Documentation" heading gives instructions on how to install Help (since we don't include it by default), and the "About" heading gives shortcut key codes, etc.

[wjaguar]

I just found that the two windows on boot was confusing, especially since its position obscured the main menu.

The position is stored in the same configfile, so you can just move the settings toolbar out of the way, and make that the default.
And yes, I see your point - the default position of settings toolbar really could be chosen better. It is just that I don't myself get a chance to see it in default position often.

BTW, why not put a link to http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/handbook ... ap_00.html into Puppy's Help menu? Lately, I see a bit too many people who don't even know mtPaint is supposed to have a manual - so it would be useful to make the manual easier to find.

And one more thing - when is Puppy 4.2 expected to be released? I have several bugfixes for mtPaint 3.30, and am going to do the 3.31 bugfix release soon - and it'd be unfortunate if I released it too late.

[Flash]

There is no "Help" heading along the top of mtPaint, nor can I find mtPaint in Puppy's Help menu which links to online documentation for Puppy's included applications. How are the many Puppy users who are new to Linux and the open-source community supposed to know there is a manual for mtPaint, never mind where it is?

There is on my mtPaint, Flash! It's at the far right on the drop down menu bar. The "Documentation" heading gives instructions on how to install Help (since we don't include it by default), and the "About" heading gives shortcut key codes, etc.

Oops I never look in the corner, away from the rest of the headings. Here's what I get when I click on Documentation: