(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

AFAIK the die is cast. 01micko is set on Slackware and that’s that. You might try groveling though.

Myself I don’t give a damn for groveling. Groveling never got me anywhere. Probably explains why I don't fit in here.

puppyite wrote:In contrast I believe that basing Puppy Linux 5.3 (or whatever next designation is) on Slackware is the worst decision imaginable.

I haven't played with Slackware since the mid/late '90s, but I don't know why it would be "worst imaginable". Being the oldest, it is also possibly the most mature.

Slackware was (and perhaps still is) the domain of true "hackers" (not to be confused with "crackers", as the media generally does -- a definition from Eric Raymond, for those who don't know the difference):

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#what_is

Historically, my observation was that the Slackware hacks were pretty damned good at coding and scripting. They're not always conventional in their solutions, but produced solid solutions. I also suspect that they have become more standardized in their coding practices, than they were in the wild and wooly early days.

Conversely, I approached Lupu Puppy with considerable trepidation, knowing that it was Ubuntu based -- I always found Ubuntu to be the duller, younger brother of Debian (Debian tends to be pretty solid). However, I have been pleasantly surprised with Lupu, and have switched all of my machines to it, from 4.3.1 (or all that I use enough to matter -- still have some test-beds to convert).

So let me conclude that with the Spot team at the helm, I see this as another successful Puppy release!

We might have to ask the moderator himself.

Flash, why did you use the please word?

There I did it.

~

Bruce B wrote:We might have to ask the moderator himself.

Flash, why did you use the please word?

There I did it.

~

I interpreted it as "please" (as opposed to an order). Take it in the context of: "One of you has to be adult enough to stop this bickering. I'm volunteering you."

Which makes please very obvious (I interpreted the text to mean that the other person is not likely to respond to please, and/or is not adult enough to stop the bickering). It was a fine job of gentle moderation, without heavy handed "axe to the head" style forum moderation. (oh no, now I've probably insulted the other poster... )

My take is Slackware is unfriendly to new users, IE hard to get a handle on and hostile to people who prefer GUI solutions.

puppyite wrote:...When Flash said:

Q5sys, just drop it please. One of you has to be adult enough to stop this bickering. I'm volunteering you.

I just assumed he was talking about the dispute Q5sys had / has with me.

You were mostly correct. I got confused about where I was posting But my point still stands. Over the years I've moderated this forum there have been several instances where two otherwise knowledgeable and helpful forum members somehow managed to fan the spark of a minor difference of opinion or misunderstanding into such a hot dispute that they both left the forum in a huff, never to be heard from again. This thread is nominally about the future of Puppy Linux. If we can't keep good people active in this forum, what kind of future does Puppy have? So I was attempting, in my fumbling and ham-handed way, to stop what I saw as another potential flame war from escalating to the point that you both left the forum. 'Nuff said?

Flash wrote:…knowledgeable and helpful forum members…

I’ll take that as a compliment.

RetroTechGuy wrote: Which makes please very obvious (I interpreted the text to mean that the other person is not likely to respond to please, and/or is not adult enough to stop the bickering). It was a fine job of gentle moderation, without heavy handed "axe to the head" style forum moderation. (oh no, now I've probably insulted the other poster... :lol: )

RetroTechGuy,

Yeah, sure he did a swell job. I was wondering if people are going to kill each other in a ruthless war of words, that never ends. One of those things where when you're on the death bed, you give over your forum user name and password to someone you trust to carry on the work.

The winner, the conquerer, is the one who had the final and last say.

Bruce

~

puppyite wrote:My take is Slackware is unfriendly to new users,
IE hard to get a handle on and hostile to people who prefer GUI
solutions.

That may or may not be. From my standpoint I'm running Puppy,
which I consider based on FOSS and glued together by Barry and
team.

As far as installing packages. To me they are mostly just files. I'm
still running Puppy.

I guess what I want to say is they are packaged, as long as a
person can open and work with the package, the packaging doesn't
matter.

Conceptually, and this is only, say what? Feelings? Instincts? I
mean the lines below.

When I think Ubuntu, I think Mark Shuttleworth, a very rich
business man. When I think Debian I think community and FOSS.

Not that it matters, except I don't know what a business man has
up his sleeve. If making design decisions, for the future, I have
more faith things will be more static and predictable in the guys
with more history, like Debian.

I pray as I push the submit button, I'm not digging a hell hole for myself
~

On topic:

Could somebody enlighten me as to WHY it is "desirable" for puppy to use Ubuntu, Debian, Slackware, Arch, <insert distro of your choice here> packages? I mean other than a short cut to avoid having to fix our own package repositories? A GOOD reason?

Wouldn't people go straight to those distros if they want those distros?

Isn't Puppy's claim to fame:
1. Lightweight
2. Run from installation, live cd, frugal install, usb
2. Able to run on old hardware
3. Able to run on live cd to repair other OS problems when all else fails?

Wouldn't Puppy be better served to work on improving THAT rather than all this mess trying to be something it isn't?

In my mind, Puppy stopped being Puppy after 431, when all this nonsense started. I still use 431 - both in installation form and live CD form. But really...if I wanted Ubuntu (yuck), I would have installed Ubuntu. I just don't get why this is even happening.


Also as a comment about people contributing and helping where they can: I used to try to help in the IRC channel but unless somebody comes in wanting to run a real Puppy, I can't. I have no desire, either, to run Ubuntu in any form so certainly won't be doing THAT. Help does come in many forms, hope some of you Negative Nellies out there realize that. (as in just because you can't see it in the form or location you prefer, doesn't mean it doesn't happen)

I just got this:

Topic Reply Notification - The Future of Puppy Linux
To: Undisclosed-recipients:;
8:50 AM

Hello,

You are receiving this email because you are watching the topic, "The Future of Puppy Linux" at Puppy Linux Discussion Forum. This topic has received a reply since your last visit. You can use the following link to view the replies made, no more notifications will be sent until you visit the topic.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=526724#526724

Makes me think something was deleted.

shariebeth wrote:Could somebody enlighten me as to WHY it is
"desirable" for puppy to use Ubuntu, Debian, Slackware, Arch,
<insert distro of your choice here> packages? I mean other than a
short cut to avoid having to fix our own package repositories? A
GOOD reason?

How about what is compatibility?

Maybe it is designing directory locations and primarily the menu
to work well with one distro or the other.

If so, the menu, I'd not have noticed anything, because I manage the
menus with a text editor and don't let fixmenus run.

~

[quote]“Negative Nellies

[quote="puppyite"][quote]“Negative Nellies

shariebeth wrote:Could somebody enlighten me as to WHY it is "desirable" for puppy to use Ubuntu, Debian, Slackware, Arch, <insert distro of your choice here> packages?

Ask Barry, AFAIK WOOF was his idea.

shariebeth wrote:On topic:

Could somebody enlighten me as to WHY it is "desirable" for puppy to use Ubuntu, Debian, Slackware, Arch, <insert distro of your choice here> packages? I mean other than a short cut to avoid having to fix our own package repositories? A GOOD reason?

OK, here's a good reason to make a system that is compatible with another distro. We don't have the same number of developers that the Big Boys have, writing code and applications for their distros.

But we have a code-rich environment, because we choose not to make ourselves completely incompatible with the Big Boys (and the Big Boys are largely cross-compatible as well).

If you want an application-rich environment, then you really want compatibility...

I install several Debian packages into my Puppy (as they installed easily). If they didn't, then I would need to get the source code, and compile for myself (and when that "make" doesn't go well, I'm really not very handy with C, so I'm generally toast).

Wouldn't people go straight to those distros if they want those distros?

Debian is a good package, and it HUGE.
Ubuntu is a pretty good package, and it HUGE.
Red Hat is a good package, and it HUGE.
Slackware is a good package, and it HUGE.
...
...
...

Isn't Puppy's claim to fame:
1. Lightweight
2. Run from installation, live cd, frugal install, usb
2. Able to run on old hardware
3. Able to run on live cd to repair other OS problems when all else fails

Does Lucid do that? Why yes it does... But wait, it was "based" upon Ubuntu... How can that be?

Easy: our Devs are Wizards and Magicians, and can reduce bloat to meat...

A dozen or so years ago, I ran Debian on a system with 64MB RAM. But I am pretty sure that my old K6-233 with 64MB RAM would no longer run Debian. But I can run Puppy on my old 333MHz laptop (and even booted and ran it with 64MB RAM, as a test).

Wouldn't Puppy be better served to work on improving THAT rather than all this mess trying to be something it isn't?

What mess would that be?

Rather than rebuild the universe one toothpick at a time, the Devs start with beams and girders, and assemble from there.

Shariebeth,
Don’t get your panties in a knot girlie. I thought the “Negative Nelies

puppyite wrote:
Sweetie, I’ll have you know I consider myself a Visionary.

Shariebeth, Don’t get your panties in a knot girlie.

Why make comments like that? It's demeaning.

Humor, it’s a difficult concept for some.

puppyite wrote:Humor, it’s a difficult concept for some.

If it was humor, I'd have found it funny. It wasn't.