(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 03:52**

Sorry, I hope I am not too late reporting in from Luci-242.

Well, extremely stable so far on an AMD quad core 2G RAM machine.
I have an nvidia video card (7900GS) and the suggestion to install the nvidia driver was right on.
The direct to desktop first launch worked flawlessly, automatically detecting screen resolution and refresh rate.
Of course I couldn't resist "candies" and installed almost immediately the xfce4 + compiz .pet; this as well has been rock solid... I just can't get enough of moving my windows around to get some wobble

I am a huge fan of the quickpet tool for the most used applications.

I am absolutely impressed and delighted by the look, performance and stability of this Puppy. I'll try to get Luci243 this week-end and put some more mileage on and will report any findings.

Thanks to all developers, for the hard work and countless hours spent on this project.

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 07:44**

This thing with CUPS...

A while ago, I had success in an own made Puppy with this old special only text and little-graphics browser "links2". Up to version 2.1pre19 it has javascript. Small, fast, secure.

Look at http://links.twibright.com/. Puppy-Pet attached.

Weeks ago i found "system-config.printer", uses Python/pycups, but had no time checking this. Seems to be small and could be a fine wizard for Puppy...
http://cyberelk.net/tim/software/system-config-printer/

Maybe...?

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 08:43**

playdayz wrote:
It is frustrating, yes. The way we are reasoning is that a user should be able to do the things that do not require an internet connection.

It is a good idea that this group analyze the situation carefully.
Since the mid-90s, the web browser's importance has overtaken the underlying OS's in importance. It isn't an issue of an "internet connection" any longer. It is an issue of usability and the relevant Graphical User Interface.
Not allowing, at least, for the basic HTML, Javascript, CSS, and flash is counter productive. It forces the user to go back, in time, to the 80's, rather than look forward to the next decade.
A bloated browser is not necessary, but one that can run CUPS, and provide the basic elements of today's modern GUIs, is essential.

The user can easily run a web server on his own system, and do quite a bit, without a connection to the internet (he can use pages/data already at his disposal). However, without a browser that supports the basic languages (features), that same user is stuck with an inadequate and antiquated capability.
The bottom line is: The browser is in the forefront -- in front of the user's glaring eyes. The OS is in the background.

you be the judge,,
ir

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 08:54**

Links2 Browser works fine for me with luci-243 and cups

Maybe it's a little bit uncomfortable especially for noobs.

Anyway, thanks mave

Rolf

Edit: It has NLS!

...and with other settings it looks real good.

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 09:29**

01micko wrote:I'll reiterate.. Barry uses the zdrv for modems,, analog.. it is theoretically disposable.. our zdrive is indispensible.. so as far as unforseen things happening with misplaced zdrvs then a unified sfs is the go IMO.

Cheers

With a separate zdrive I already had surprises as after installing some new release my wireless didn't work anymore, until I realized I needed that zdrive. So if possible indeed keep the drivers inside the main sfs.

01micko wrote:Do we need the liberation fonts? Barry has updated the dejavu fonts in woof, a little bigger but offset that and then some by offering liberation in PPM

Maybe I don't understand well, but as far as I understand not the whole main sfs is loaded in ram. So things like more fonts will grow the main sfs, but not the part of it that is loaded in ram,no?

I have my fonts outside the save file and symlink to them, so even if there is a distro without many fonts, I still have a full set available.

I avoid to install from PPM as it grows the save file, unless:
° there would be a mean to install outside the save file or
° instead of installing making a sfs to be loaded with the boot manager.
(speaking about FRUGAL installs)

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 09:36**

sinc wrote:you know, with all the effort put into finding the right "small" browser do we really need one? i think it has been said the only reason we need one is for the intro page and for cups. can't the intro page be made into an image file with links on it that point to "default browser>whatever website" and if there is no default browser installed then just like it does now it directs you to install one. or with cups the same type of thing, it opens with "default browser" and if there is not one the one has to be installed.

I don't know, i'm not a programmer so its probably more complicated but it seems crazy all this effort to find a non-functional mini-browser.

There was a moment Barry had the intro page as an image, not a html file and thus avoiding the need of a browser.
I can't remember the pro's and con's about it, but I think he changed back at a html file again. And maybe introducing the small browser concept.

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 10:32**

RAR file missing in Pupzip

Add this (Line 137 in /usr/local/bin/pupzip):

Code: Select all

 | grep -iv "\\.rar"

Now, Click on RAR file --> OK !

Thanks,

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 10:34**

Links2 Browser works fine for me with luci-243 and cups

Maybe it's a little bit uncomfortable especially for noobs.

Hi Rolf,

yes but NLS is fine and handling needs accustoming. Don't forget savon Options manually.

In our language

ja, dieser Links-Browser ist eine feine Sache. Einstellungen aber unbedingt manuell unter "Optionen speichern" sichern.

Gruss/Regards
Markus

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 11:13**

For your information.

Japanese editions and LupQ have only one font file for DejaVuSans.ttf, have not bold nor oblique.
They have special fonts.conf to emulate bold and slant:

Code: Select all

!-- 
 Artificial oblique for fonts without an italic or oblique version
 -->
 
	<match target="font">
		<!-- check to see if the font is roman -->
		<test name="slant">
			<const>roman</const>
		</test>
		<!-- check to see if the pattern requested non-roman -->
		<test target="pattern" name="slant" compare="not_eq">
			<const>roman</const>
		</test>
		<!-- multiply the matrix to slant the font -->
		<edit name="matrix" mode="assign">
			<times>
				<name>matrix</name>
				<matrix><double>1</double><double>0.2</double>
					<double>0</double><double>1</double>
				</matrix>
			</times>
		</edit>
		<!-- pretend the font is oblique now -->
		<edit name="slant" mode="assign">
			<const>oblique</const>
		</edit>
	</match>

        <match target="font">
                <!-- check to see if the font is just regular -->
                <test name="weight" compare="less_eq">
                        <const>medium</const>
                </test>
                <!-- check to see if the pattern requests bold -->
                <test target="pattern" name="weight" compare="more">
                        <const>medium</const>
                </test>
                <!-- set the embolden flag -->
                <edit name="embolden" mode="assign">
                        <bool>true</bool>
                </edit>
        </match>

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 11:19**

LupQ has limited numbers of font files.
See the directory /usr/share/fonts in LupQ.
LupQ has removed all the font files in /usr/share/cups/fonts, seems no problem so far.

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 13:54**

more potential space saving
- have this directory (our help feature) online, as a download
or both
usr/share/doc/

that would save over I MB

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 14:49**

Lobster wrote:
Specifically, users need to be able to print even if they have no internet connection. And Cups which controls printing can only run in a fairly modern browser with css and javascript. So we need a way for someone to run Cups without downloading a browser. But we are also committed to the choice concept in browsers. Catch 22. I was bummed when the new dillo 2.2 didn't do it--I tested everything but add a printer, and that's where it bombs.
You probably know Dillo does not support javascript and it is a low priority in their future plans.

Thought we learned our lesson about checking the tiny browser actually supports JavaScript before including it in Puppy with NetSurf?

Speaking of NetSurf, I'm typing this on the Puppy version that someone put on the PPM a while back. Works quite well, although the version number should include the revision code as well as 3.0 Development (for example, the current RISC OS test builds of it include the autobuild date and revision number).

JavaScript support in NetSurf is still on their agenda but their policy has been to get the CSS, DOM and HTML layout working properly first. JavaScript support on RISC OS in other browsers has often been a horrible tacked-on mish-mash.

Lobster wrote:The new calculator (replaces 3 or 4) is an improvement.
Having so many calculators in the menu was a Puppy idiosyncrasy and bloatware tendency (they were very tiny - no reason to have them)

If anyone needs a scientific calculator they can download one from the PPM, once there is one there. Regarding the Business section on the menu, shouldn't Gnumeric and HomeBank be moved to the first level now?

Just upgraded Merlin to Luci-243 and everything seems to be working well.

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 14:55**

Didn't report it but had this starting from 240.
I get errors when dragging files from one rox window to another, see picture.
This is the bad part.
The good part is, that astonishingly the copy did work ok as I can work with the files.

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 14:56**

Double posting.

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 15:12**

playdayz wrote:The bottom line of Lucid 5.2 is starting to make sense to me. We updated and/or improved almost all of the main programs.

Sadly most of the new versions still don't work on my K6 2 500 machine, with the exception of the new mtPaint. On the bright side, I finally did that full install of Lupu 511 and it's working very well so far.

playdayz wrote:So if anyone has suggestions about shaving some space, now's the time.

There's quite a bit of stuff in the Internet section that I'm never likely to use and seems easy enough for someone to download from the PPM if they have a need. I'm particularly thinking of the Axel download accelerator and Psip. I'm not familiar with all the other apps in that section but there seems to be a bit of overlap with the various download managers too. In Multimedia->MediaTools Luvcview could probably be moved to the PPM.

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 16:08**

Jades wrote:I'm particularly thinking of the Axel download accelerator and Psip. I'm not familiar with all the other apps in that section but there seems to be a bit of overlap with the various download managers too. In Multimedia->MediaTools Luvcview could probably be moved to the PPM.

Axel download accelerator is a very very small application 20kb and used by many of people, like myself to speed up large downloads for compiling by 4X. Its actually one of the most useful tiny apps puppy has in its bag of tricks.
ttuuxxx

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 16:09**

According to this Linux Foundation article, several MB's can be shaved of a live CD with a simple script, compressing ppd files.
That's what Ubuntu did for Maverick.
But I don't know if there's enough python in Puppy to do this.

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 16:18**

Saving space is done by either removing large apps or reducing needed libs by others. Getting rid of Gnumeric/Goffice and making a sfs and pet for it for quickpet would save around 5MB compress give or take and a static Abiword that's compiled without gfoffice like in 2.14X would be a better move.
Making a new printer gui that ask you which make and model printer you have and then downloads the ppd from the repo would save a few MB, That would get rid of a 7MB Ghost script lib plus its other parts.
When compiling ghostscript you the option of it building all the ppd instead of just building the extra large lib. Those are the files that should be uploaded to the repo and included in the gui. Following the above 2 software recommendations would save around 10MB compressed or more.
ttuuxxx

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 16:22**

Bert wrote:According to this Linux Foundation article, several MB's can be shaved of a live CD with a simple script, compressing ppd files.

The local store of PPD files in Puppy is quite small, so there is not much to be gained. The built-in Gutenprint driver package generates its PPD files dynamically.

Some other driver packages available for Puppy already use this technique of compressing their PPD files.

Posted: **Thu 09 Dec 2010, 16:27**

ttuuxxx wrote:Axel download accelerator is a very very small application 20kb and used by many of people, like myself to speed up large downloads for compiling by 4X. Its actually one of the most useful tiny apps puppy has in its bag of tricks.
ttuuxxx

Not much savings in 20K! I didn't realise that it was that small.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Lupu-515 Beta New Version DEC 18

Luci-242 report

Web browsers and CUPS

*RAR

Fonts

Fonts cont...

errors while copying between rox windows (lucid 240)

errors while copying between rox windows (lucid 240)