DebianDog - Wheezy

[sindi]

Snowed here, back to linux. Trying jessie today.

To a DELL 600M laptop with 1GB RAM I downloaded jessie (32-bit, jwm)
I think from ibiblio. It uses close to 768MB RAM. I modified the
menu.list lines for wheezy. jessie still uses wheezy*sgn.

One of my laptops cannot be upgraded cheaply from 512MB (microdimms),

wheezy works there. (Tahr won't boot, lupu and wary have video problems).

What can I remove from jessie to reduce memory without compiling my own
kernel? I see an awful lot of modules loaded for pata, scsi, parport,
joystick, modem, etc. Would it help to rmmod them? I don't use the
modem. The DELL has dead wifi slot and usb and battery and would boot
faster without looking for them.


apt-get update cannot find kazzas.... files, which were deleted.
What do I change the first line of sources.list to?
It would help to update the iso's online.

apt-get install ssh worked (I am online with it)

palemoon 28.4.1 worked (run from its own directory)

I see gtk3 so Firefox 52.9 ESR ought to work.

I have not yet tried installing python and youtube-dl in debiandog wheezy.

Jessie has perl 5.20. youtube-viewer old version needs 5.14 and python
2.7 (which I just installed).

youtube-dl apparently installed its own python files. They add to about
50MB of new files but probably lots of overlap. apt-get remove python
removed about 600K.

apt-get install youtube-viewer - unable to locate the package
(until I fix sources.list).

[sindi]

I downloaded the latest 3.5.0 gtk-youtube-viewer pet and extracted it to /mnt/home/ and wrote a script to use youtube-viewer standalone, which works with ddog wheezy. (The gtk-viewer part does not work). I will test it at sites where 3.1.5 does not work.

If I can get ddog wheezy to install the 3.1.5 version I will then compare files and try to update youtube-dl etc. and make an updated .deb package.

Are there smaller debian kernels? ddog wheezy with 2.5GB kernel uses 600MB RAM in low-ram mode with PaleMoon 28.4.1 (100MB for X and PM, the rest for kernel and modules?) which makes it unusable on my older laptops with 512MB. (Including a 2004 ASUS with screwy video that will not display right with wary or lupu or even boot tahr). Modules are loaded for every pata and sata drive, serial, parallel, modem, wifi (dead slot), battery (dead), joystick...

[fredx181]

Are there smaller debian kernels? ddog wheezy with 2.5GB kernel uses 600MB RAM in low-ram mode with PaleMoon 28.4.1 (100MB for X and PM, the rest for kernel and modules?) which makes it unusable on my older laptops with 512MB.

Where do you get that number from ? (600MB RAM) for me at initial boot it's only 50MB RAM ! (from Htop display)

I downloaded the latest 3.5.0 gtk-youtube-viewer pet and extracted it to /mnt/home/ and wrote a script to use youtube-viewer standalone, which works with ddog wheezy. (The gtk-viewer part does not work). I will test it at sites where 3.1.5 does not work.

Better stick with 3.1.5 from repo, I'd say (which is working well with the included Perl version)

Modules are loaded for every pata and sata drive, serial, parallel, modem, wifi (dead slot), battery (dead), joystick...

You can try unloading these, it will decrease RAM usage, but not much, I think.

Fred

[sindi]

If I subract cache (listed under swap though I have no swap file) and buffers it is 100MB memory usage including X and Pale Moon. I won't worry about kernel size.

I just noticed youtube-viewer in /usr/bin/ (3.1.5) but it can't locate Data Dump.pm in ..... (lots of things with perl in the name). gtk-youtube-viewer cannot find Gtk2.pm

I tried again to apt-get install ssh and then as suggested I ran apt-get -f install and this time it downloaded a bunch of missing dependencies for ssh and youtube-viewer including mpv and various perl packages.

I seem to have fixed sources.list. thanks for all the help.

youtube-viewer --480p 'search term' works now on my 2004 laptop.
About 62% CPU usage for mpv plus Xorg. At 720p about 88% and I can watch even with Palemoon 28.4 also loaded!!!!!

This is a big improvement over the puppy pet, which worked in ddog or lupu only up to 480p and required loading youtube-viewer before searching.

Watching youtube from Palemoon at 360p uses over 100% cpu
(of a video with little action, not theater mode or full screen).

Many advantages of 2015 Debiandog wheezy over various 2010-2014 puppies, on an older laptop:

1). Low RAM usage (including a low-RAM mode of X).
2) video works on an ASUS M5000 where wary displays with missing screen bottom, lupu crashes if I try to access a vt, and tahr cannot find /usr/bin. (I will try it on a Compaq V2000 next, which also crashes if I try to use a vt, and on various other 2003-2005 laptops which do not work with lupu or tahr, or lupu lacks fbcon).
3) works directly with Palemoon 28.4. (and Jessie should work
with Firefox 52.9 ESR which needs gtk 3).
4) works directly with youtube-viewer 3.1.5 (and I may manage to
replace a few files to get 3.5) at 720p (instead of indirectly at only 480p) even with Palemoon also running.

Nice to see elinks and mplayer.

I will research how to install printer drivers.

There is a forum discussion about replacing kernels in puppy.
How do i use a 2.6 kernel and modules in debiandog (on an HP dv6500 which does not support the nouveau chip in later kernels)?

What is better about jessie besides gtk3, for 2002-2007 laptops?
gtk-youtube-viewer cannot locate Glib.pm but I don't need it. The menu item for it does nothing either.

[sindi]

I rebooted (possibly with Ctrl-Alt-Del instead of typing wmreboot) and now Youtube is no longer working. Perhaps something did not get saved properly. There is no dialog about saving things when I reboot that way.

Data/Dump.pm did not return a true value at /usr/bin/youtube-viewer at line 431. (When run from a non-X terminal).
Dump.pm is blank.

Also two small scripts I wrote (one was to ssh to my mail provider)
were blank after reboot. I rewrote one, saved it, chmod +x, wmreboot and it is blank again. So is Dump.pm

aptget update does not help.

aptget install youtube-viewer lists missing dependencies again.

aptget -f install did not help. Every time I run it is says it will use another 22MB disk space. I ran it a few times.

Palemoon 28.4 still works.
sources.list is still what it should be (smokey and archive).

Fred, can you reboot and still use youtube-viewer and is there a Dump.pm with something in it? Do scripts erase themselves?

[fredx181]

Fred, can you reboot and still use youtube-viewer and is there a Dump.pm with something in it? Do scripts erase themselves?

I have no such problems, I tested again by starting with fresh save, first changed sources.list and did:

Code: Select all

apt-get update
apt-get install youtube-viewer
# recommended to install youtube-dl, first install dependency python:
apt-get install python
curl -L https://yt-dl.org/downloads/latest/youtube-dl -o /usr/local/bin/youtube-dl
# make executable
chmod a+rx /usr/local/bin/youtube-dl

And it works fine for me, also after reboot, I think something went wrong for you in the process of first trying to install before you changed sources.list

I'd advice to start fresh and try the above.

Fred

[sindi]

The best part of puppy linux is all the help in the forums.

I deleted changes.dat, started over, edited sources.list and also made two scripts, apt-get update, apt-get install youtube-viewer. youtube-viewer and even gtk-youtube-viewer now work. I copied ssh and sftp to /usr/local/bin from where i had saved them.

I then rebooted using the menu in X (which did NOT work, I had to power off). The new scripts are still there.

Can someone (Fred?) modify the iso files with the correct sources.list or at least add the info to the first post in this discussion? It would save everyone time in the long run.

720p works even with gtk-youtube-viewer dialog box onscreen behind the youtube video that is playing. Pale Moon and ssh work too.

I look forward to copying this setup to five other 2003-2005 laptops which do not work with lucid puppy (some of them also not with wary or tahr).

How do I keep the font from changing during boot from rounded to squared style? It changes about the time I see something about fonts onscreen. In a terminal, not X. I am used to the former font.

What advantage is there to jessie for a 2003-2005 laptop other than that it has gtk3? Can I add gtk3 to wheezy?

I do not find youtube-dl or yt-dl in /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, or youtube-viewer script. It appears to download with wget.

[sindi]

using jwm menu reboot stops
partway says to type ctrl d
poweroff halts does not turn off
on dell 600m 2004 where both
work with puppies from menu or
wmreboot or wmpoweroff.
i think wmreboot from vt worked.

installed yt viewer from vt not
x/jwm said no display did not
make menu item no problem as
i start programs from terminal.
and i can edit .jwmrc.

yt viewer works without x
audio only. i will try to get
mpv working with framebuffer
video. uses less cpu good on
older computers. mplayer -vo
fbdev works in puppies to play
dvds without x. does debdog
use framebuffer? why does
terminal font change during
boot?

[fredx181]

I do not find youtube-dl or yt-dl in /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, or youtube-viewer script. It appears to download with wget.

Best to use the curl command to install youtube-dl, see my previous post, but I forgot to add that python has to be installed, edited above now to:

Code: Select all

# recommended to install youtube-dl, first install dependency python:
apt-get install python
curl -L https://yt-dl.org/downloads/latest/youtube-dl -o /usr/local/bin/youtube-dl
# make executable
chmod a+rx /usr/local/bin/youtube-dl

Yes, you can install gtk3 in wheezy

Code: Select all

apt-get install libgtk-3-0

Jessie has more modern software and is officially still maintained (till 2020, I believe) for security fixes and maybe more, but I'm not sure what exactly.
The sources.list for DebianDog-Jessie needs some changes (e.g. kazza repo not working anymore), tell me if you are interested and I'll try to figure out how exactly.

EDIT: I know very little about framebuffer, so can't help with that.

Fred

[sindi]

Why do you suggest downloading youtube-dl? I already have the latest version in puppy
(no dependencies) but do not use it since I have youtube-viewer (which downloads with wget).

[fredx181]

Why do you suggest downloading youtube-dl? I already have the latest version in puppy
(no dependencies) but do not use it since I have youtube-viewer (which downloads with wget).

youtube-viewer (and gtk-youtube-viewer) can play more video's if youtube-dl is installed (depends on python), because mpv can make use of it.
When youtube-dl is not installed, many video's will not play by using (gtk-)youtube-viewer.
See youtube-dl as sort of a helper application for youtube-viewer (not for downloading but for playing with mpv)

About console font:
To change it, edit /etc/default/console-setup, find the line FONTFACE="TerminusBoldVGA"
and change to:

Code: Select all

FONTFACE="Terminus"

Then you'll have the squared font after reboot as I understand that you'd like.

Fred

[sindi]

/etc/default/consolesetup chooses the font for X. I will edit it to make
the font smaller. I made it green on black in the menu (-fg green -bg black)
and may try to change font size in the menu as well.

I want to change from squared back to rounded font in a virtual terminal (Ctrl-Alt-F2 or chvt 2). In puppy lucid (not sulu though) I insmod fbcon and in menu.lst add vga=791 (1024x768) and get a rounded default font that is smaller than 640x480.

Wheezy is working (without a reboot yet) on my 2003 200 ARC Gateway with 1.4GHz CPU (which works with wary 5.5 and tahr 6.05 and not with Lupu due to buggy intel driver 855GM). I started with no changes.dat file.

720p youtube uses 54-60% of cpu at one site, and 90% at a site that used 85% on the DELL 600M with 1.5GHz cpu (both Pentium M). This suggests that even 1.3GHz will play 720p with P-M and 855GM video.

I have 2003 laptops to test at 720p that are not Pentium M (Mobile P-4 etc): DELL 1150 about 90% as fast, DELL 8500 88% as fast (might work), and a 16" SONY (probably won't work - only 80% as fast). Also a Toshiba, a Thinkpad 41.... What fun!

Speeds were tested with puppy.

I installed python and then copied over youtube-dl. Do I simply type youtube-viewer and it uses youtube-dl?

[sindi]

mplayer -vo help and mpv -vo help do not list fbdev.
mpv works with x11 and xv. mplayer says SSE2 is disabled.
I compiled some mplayers a long time ago with fbdev support.

[sindi]

The changes were saved when I rebooted. ;=) !!!!!
I will figure out where I goofed on the previous laptop.
Should it work to simply copy over a changes.dat (like I do with the save files in puppy) or is it specific to hardware?

Some 720p videos use only 50% of CPU. Some use 95% (mpv and x)
and with Pale Moon using 5% running the audio is jerky. (Simple solution).

[sindi]

I click on time zone in the jwm menu and a box flashes on the screen for a second. The time is seven hours ahead of EDT. Puppies have a way to get time from the internet. The CMOS battery is dead and complete disassembly is required to replace it (or the hard drive). The laptop will not boot from hard drive unless I either change BIOS settings (with good battery) or hit F10 (?) for boot menu. Even with no floppy or CD present. I can live with that for a while but the correct time may be needed for websites to work (no complaints about invalid certificate).

This is addictive.

[musher0]

HI Sindi.

My sympathies. I had the same problem: dead battery, BIOS not keeping
its time.

Fortunately, for situations like this, there exists a software solution called
< htpdate >. I wrapped it up in a bash script that loads it twice at boot-up.

Twice is to make sure the user has the exact date and time, within a half-
second's difference of science institute time (I mean like Canada's National
Research Council and such).

It's here.

Warnings --
1) I have never used a "Dog" in my life. Only Puppies. I believe that the
scripts are interchangeable, though.

2) Also, I'm not sure what "ldd" your "WheezyDog" has. You may wish to
read my first post in my htpdate thread: I explain how to check.

If your "ldd" is too high, please let me know, and I'll compile htpdate for
PuppyPrecise and that should be ok for a Wheezy, because Precise has a
lower ldd number than Wheezy, IIRC. And a program compiled with a
lower ldd will run on a Linux with a higher ldd, but not the reverse.

3) The last two URLs that htpdate checks for time are the web sites of the
Parliament of Canada and Quebec's National Assembly. This is fine if you
live in North America.

But those URLs may need to be changed to similar sites closer to your
location if you live on another continent, because obviously checking the
time of a distant web site takes more time. You may wish to use closer
sites to gain a bit of process time.

4) Be patient. It will take one or two minutes before htpdate completes
those time checks, and the correct time is displayed in the task bar or
on a desktop clock. But after that, you're good for your entire session.

~~~~~~~~~

You mention your disks, but this time-setting problem has nothing
to do with disks. I encourage you to do an fsck on them every once and a
while to keep them in good shape. But I know for a fact that even a faulty
disk cannot be the cause of this problem: the BIOS, its little RAM and its
battery are on the motherboard, NOT on a disk.

Finally, you can use htpdate forever: no more money spent on BIOS
batteries!

Good luck! Keep me posted?

TIA.

BFN.

[fredx181]

Hi sindi,

I installed python and then copied over youtube-dl. Do I simply type youtube-viewer and it uses youtube-dl?

Yes, well.. it's mpv that can make use of youtube-dl, from mpv --list-options

Code: Select all

 --ytdl                           Flag (default: yes)

Default is yes, so can be disabled with no
So the advantage is that most video's will play, but it takes longer to load a video, from what I experienced.

New mplayer versions have it too (if compiled with that, I guess)

Should it work to simply copy over a changes.dat (like I do with the save files in puppy) or is it specific to hardware?

Should work in most cases, copying changes.dat

Fred

[sindi]

Fred, thanks for info about mpv and youtube-dl. I think I read and tested that mpv can stream what is being downloaded
but mplayer (older) cannot. I will copy changes.dat to the next 2004 laptop (ASUS M5000). Some day I will attempt to
compile mpv with fbdev support, for Wheezy.

Regarding hard drive boot and time zones. The Gateway seems to have a rechargeable clock battery because this morning it
kept the time and it booted to hard drive (which is still listed third - odd). But most laptops come to us with dead
clock batteries. Since at least 2003 they use regular (or extra-thin) coin cell batteries, often with leads soldered to
them so they can plug into the board. Instead of spending $15 on something specific, just remove the old leads and tape
them to a standard (thin 24 or 32 mm) coin cell. One Youtube video suggested shrink wrapping something black and
tubular over the top. We have had cellophane tape fall off with age. Black electrical tape is designed to last.

The video demonstrated why NOT to solder to a battery (they heat up and explode).

Most laptops also come to us with dead or missing hard drives. Five of seven laptops I am playing with this week
(2003-2007) also have dead wifi slots, one has dead optical drive controller, and another has optical drive which reads
CDs but does not play DVDs. People give us these because they 'do not work'. Linux can boot from hard drives with bad
boot sectors (starting area). For laptops too old to boot from USB flash drive (2003) files can be copied in another
laptop, or use a USB floppy drive that provides the ability to boot from USB (except often USB is dead too).

I have a closet full of these treasures. I hand them out to neighborhood kids to watch Youtube. (They also do not mind
bad keys, bad sound, and bad screens). I like the older screens - nonglare and nonwide. Better for text. I avoid X when
possible. If I get mpv working with fbdev I think any P 4 laptop should play at least 480p youtube. The kids accepted
240p five years ago but not now. We also run a small private food pantry (leftovers from an official one) and the willing
recipients of tons of day-old bread and hundreds of rutabagas in small unemployed towns will be grateful for anything with
working wifi to use in their apartments with free signals for kids' homework instead of old cell phones. Ebay has $1.50
old USB wifi cards without working linux drivers but ndiswrapper might work with them. We have three to test. rtl8180?

I am also in North America (west and possibly a bit south of Windsor, Canada). Thanks for the htpdate program but I found
another solution which might work faster. Does htpdate also determine time zone?

I could not find a way to set time in Wheezy dog, and the Time Zone setting dialog box flashes on and off and is not
usable (on the Gateway anyway). Someone please confirm.

Tahr 6.0.5 - Menu, Desktop, Psync (synchronize time) and "Set Date and Time" menu items.

The actual programs are scripts 'set-time-for-puppy' and 'timezone-set'. No dependencies.
I will try them in wheezy dog.

By ldd number, I presume you are checking library dependencies and anything that works with older libraries (glibc etc)
will also work with newer ones (backwards compatible). ldd on the above 'not a dynamic executable', which sometimes means
statically compiled (includes all required libraries).

Wheezy dog has already worked on two 2003 or 2004 laptops (with 512MB RAM) that had video problems or simply would not
boot with any version of wary, lupup or tahr, and it supports the latest Pale Moon and youtube-viewer works at a higher
resolution than a patched puppy. With gtk3 it should run Firefox 52.9 ESR. Jessie might work for a few more years.

[sindi]

Copied changes.dat to 2004 ASUS M5000 and it works except for a dead clock battery, or maybe it is also rechargeable, and
the scripts to set time and time zone from puppy cannot find /etc/DISTRO_SPECS. We replaced the 40GB hard drive already.
Wifi works in Wary and Tahr but X is messed up in Wary. Lupu crashes if you try to switch VTs. Reads CDs not
video DVDs. 1.4GHz, plays 720p easily with less CPU power than the Gateway or DELL. No USB boot.

Since wifi works I tried to install the firmware package from the DELL (where wifi slot died):
dpkg -i firmware-ipw2x00...
but it wants debconf which cannot be found.

I saw debconf and the firmware listed in pool/non-free/f/ in a package listing for wheezy at the archive.
It also wants wireless-tools also not found, non-free.

Everything but wifi/time is working. 512MB microdimms.

sources.list includes smokey01 and also archive.debian.org/debian
Do I need to add pool (whatever that is)? Is firmware specific to a distribution?

[musher0]

Hi Sindi.

For the record, with htpdate, you do not need to specify the time zone
to get the correct time on your computer. Htpdate computes it for you.
I forgot to mention that in my previous post, sorry.

Please do as you wish! To any upset, there is a positive side. Your
problem prompted me to revisit and update my htpdate script.

I have come up with two new versions containing the latest htpdate as
of this writing, version 1.2.0:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115843 (PuppyPrecise 5.7.1)
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109842 (Puduan7)

The PPrecise-571 version should be compatible with Puppies having an
ldd lower than 2.24, down to ldd-2.20. The Puduan version targets
Puppies with ldd-2.24 and above.

@all: I believe I have tested it thoroughly, but please report any
weirdness in operation below or in one of the threads above.

In the hope that this script will help someone. BFN.