VotersHere is an idea for the more technically inclined: Is it possible to Invent a tool for pulling a person's head out of their ass? Could this tool be modified to do large groups at one time? For example, politicians and corporate executives (feel free to add more to the list).
Oil Spill Is Really Pissing Me Off!!!!
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Dewbie
Here is some more lunacy:
news.blogs.cnn.com
Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is using the Gulf Coast oil spill to promote the issue of drilling in the Alaskan Wildlife National Refuge -- the 20-million protected acres where untapped oil and gas reserves have long served as a lightning rod of controversy.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/02/pa ... -drilling/
news.blogs.cnn.com
Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is using the Gulf Coast oil spill to promote the issue of drilling in the Alaskan Wildlife National Refuge -- the 20-million protected acres where untapped oil and gas reserves have long served as a lightning rod of controversy.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/02/pa ... -drilling/
Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise.
Surangama Sutra
Surangama Sutra
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bugman
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bugman
Nigeria's agony dwarfs the Gulf oil spill. The US and Europe ignore it
The Deepwater Horizon disaster caused headlines around the world, yet the people who live in the Niger delta have had to live with environmental catastrophes for decades
We reached the edge of the oil spill near the Nigerian village of Otuegwe after a long hike through cassava plantations. Ahead of us lay swamp. We waded into the warm tropical water and began swimming, cameras and notebooks held above our heads. We could smell the oil long before we saw it – the stench of garage forecourts and rotting vegetation hanging thickly in the air.
The farther we travelled, the more nauseous it became. Soon we were swimming in pools of light Nigerian crude, the best-quality oil in the world. One of the many hundreds of 40-year-old pipelines that crisscross the Niger delta had corroded and spewed oil for several months.
Forest and farmland were now covered in a sheen of greasy oil. Drinking wells were polluted and people were distraught. No one knew how much oil had leaked. "We lost our nets, huts and fishing pots," said Chief Promise, village leader of Otuegwe and our guide. "This is where we fished and farmed. We have lost our forest. We told Shell of the spill within days, but they did nothing for six months."
That was the Niger delta a few years ago, where, according to Nigerian academics, writers and environment groups, oil companies have acted with such impunity and recklessness that much of the region has been devastated by leaks.
In fact, more oil is spilled from the delta's network of terminals, pipes, pumping stations and oil platforms every year than has been lost in the Gulf of Mexico, the site of a major ecological catastrophe caused by oil that has poured from a leak triggered by the explosion that wrecked BP's Deepwater Horizon rig last month.
That disaster, which claimed the lives of 11 rig workers, has made headlines round the world. By contrast, little information has emerged about the damage inflicted on the Niger delta. Yet the destruction there provides us with a far more accurate picture of the price we have to pay for drilling oil today.
On 1 May this year a ruptured ExxonMobil pipeline in the state of Akwa Ibom spilled more than a million gallons into the delta over seven days before the leak was stopped. Local people demonstrated against the company but say they were attacked by security guards. Community leaders are now demanding $1bn in compensation for the illness and loss of livelihood they suffered. Few expect they will succeed. In the meantime, thick balls of tar are being washed up along the coast.
Within days of the Ibeno spill, thousands of barrels of oil were spilled when the nearby Shell Trans Niger pipeline was attacked by rebels. A few days after that, a large oil slick was found floating on Lake Adibawa in Bayelsa state and another in Ogoniland. "We are faced with incessant oil spills from rusty pipes, some of which are 40 years old," said Bonny Otavie, a Bayelsa MP.
This point was backed by Williams Mkpa, a community leader in Ibeno: "Oil companies do not value our life; they want us to all die. In the past two years, we have experienced 10 oil spills and fishermen can no longer sustain their families. It is not tolerable."
With 606 oilfields, the Niger delta supplies 40% of all the crude the United States imports and is the world capital of oil pollution. Life expectancy in its rural communities, half of which have no access to clean water, has fallen to little more than 40 years over the past two generations. Locals blame the oil that pollutes their land and can scarcely believe the contrast with the steps taken by BP and the US government to try to stop the Gulf oil leak and to protect the Louisiana shoreline from pollution.
"If this Gulf accident had happened in Nigeria, neither the government nor the company would have paid much attention," said the writer Ben Ikari, a member of the Ogoni people. "This kind of spill happens all the time in the delta."
"The oil companies just ignore it. The lawmakers do not care and people must live with pollution daily. The situation is now worse than it was 30 years ago. Nothing is changing. When I see the efforts that are being made in the US I feel a great sense of sadness at the double standards. What they do in the US or in Europe is very different."
"We see frantic efforts being made to stop the spill in the US," said Nnimo Bassey, Nigerian head of Friends of the Earth International. "But in Nigeria, oil companies largely ignore their spills, cover them up and destroy people's livelihood and environments. The Gulf spill can be seen as a metaphor for what is happening daily in the oilfields of Nigeria and other parts of Africa.
"This has gone on for 50 years in Nigeria. People depend completely on the environment for their drinking water and farming and fishing. They are amazed that the president of the US can be making speeches daily, because in Nigeria people there would not hear a whimper," he said.
It is impossible to know how much oil is spilled in the Niger delta each year because the companies and the government keep that secret. However, two major independent investigations over the past four years suggest that as much is spilled at sea, in the swamps and on land every year as has been lost in the Gulf of Mexico so far.
One report, compiled by WWF UK, the World Conservation Union and representatives from the Nigerian federal government and the Nigerian Conservation Foundation, calculated in 2006 that up to 1.5m tons of oil – 50 times the pollution unleashed in the Exxon Valdez tanker disaster in Alaska – has been spilled in the delta over the past half century. Last year Amnesty calculated that the equivalent of at least 9m barrels of oil was spilled and accused the oil companies of a human rights outrage.
According to Nigerian federal government figures, there were more than 7,000 spills between 1970 and 2000, and there are 2,000 official major spillages sites, many going back decades, with thousands of smaller ones still waiting to be cleared up. More than 1,000 spill cases have been filed against Shell alone.
Last month Shell admitted to spilling 14,000 tonnes of oil in 2009. The majority, said the company, was lost through two incidents – one in which the company claims that thieves damaged a wellhead at its Odidi field and another where militants bombed the Trans Escravos pipeline.
Shell, which works in partnership with the Nigerian government in the delta, says that 98% of all its oil spills are caused by vandalism, theft or sabotage by militants and only a minimal amount by deteriorating infrastructure. "We had 132 spills last year, as against 175 on average. Safety valves were vandalised; one pipe had 300 illegal taps. We found five explosive devices on one. Sometimes communities do not give us access to clean up the pollution because they can make more money from compensation," said a spokesman.
"We have a full-time oil spill response team. Last year we replaced 197 miles of pipeline and are using every known way to clean up pollution, including microbes. We are committed to cleaning up any spill as fast as possible as soon as and for whatever reason they occur."
These claims are hotly disputed by communities and environmental watchdog groups. They mostly blame the companies' vast network of rusting pipes and storage tanks, corroding pipelines, semi-derelict pumping stations and old wellheads, as well as tankers and vessels cleaning out tanks.
The scale of the pollution is mind-boggling. The government's national oil spill detection and response agency (Nosdra) says that between 1976 and 1996 alone, more than 2.4m barrels contaminated the environment. "Oil spills and the dumping of oil into waterways has been extensive, often poisoning drinking water and destroying vegetation. These incidents have become common due to the lack of laws and enforcement measures within the existing political regime," said a spokesman for Nosdra.
The sense of outrage is widespread. "There are more than 300 spills, major and minor, a year," said Bassey. "It happens all the year round. The whole environment is devastated. The latest revelations highlight the massive difference in the response to oil spills. In Nigeria, both companies and government have come to treat an extraordinary level of oil spills as the norm."
A spokesman for the Stakeholder Democracy Network in Lagos, which works to empower those in communities affected by the oil companies' activities, said: "The response to the spill in the United States should serve as a stiff reminder as to how far spill management in Nigeria has drifted from standards across the world."
Other voices of protest point out that the world has overlooked the scale of the environmental impact. Activist Ben Amunwa, of the London-based oil watch group Platform, said: "Deepwater Horizon may have exceed Exxon Valdez, but within a few years in Nigeria offshore spills from four locations dwarfed the scale of the Exxon Valdez disaster many times over. Estimates put spill volumes in the Niger delta among the worst on the planet, but they do not include the crude oil from waste water and gas flares. Companies such as Shell continue to avoid independent monitoring and keep key data secret."
Worse may be to come. One industry insider, who asked not to be named, said: "Major spills are likely to increase in the coming years as the industry strives to extract oil from increasingly remote and difficult terrains. Future supplies will be offshore, deeper and harder to work. When things go wrong, it will be harder to respond."
Judith Kimerling, a professor of law and policy at the City University of New York and author of Amazon Crude, a book about oil development in Ecuador, said: "Spills, leaks and deliberate discharges are happening in oilfields all over the world and very few people seem to care."
There is an overwhelming sense that the big oil companies act as if they are beyond the law. Bassey said: "What we conclude from the Gulf of Mexico pollution incident is that the oil companies are out of control.
"It is clear that BP has been blocking progressive legislation, both in the US and here. In Nigeria, they have been living above the law. They are now clearly a danger to the planet. The dangers of this happening again and again are high. They must be taken to the international court of justice."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ma ... elta-shell
The Deepwater Horizon disaster caused headlines around the world, yet the people who live in the Niger delta have had to live with environmental catastrophes for decades
We reached the edge of the oil spill near the Nigerian village of Otuegwe after a long hike through cassava plantations. Ahead of us lay swamp. We waded into the warm tropical water and began swimming, cameras and notebooks held above our heads. We could smell the oil long before we saw it – the stench of garage forecourts and rotting vegetation hanging thickly in the air.
The farther we travelled, the more nauseous it became. Soon we were swimming in pools of light Nigerian crude, the best-quality oil in the world. One of the many hundreds of 40-year-old pipelines that crisscross the Niger delta had corroded and spewed oil for several months.
Forest and farmland were now covered in a sheen of greasy oil. Drinking wells were polluted and people were distraught. No one knew how much oil had leaked. "We lost our nets, huts and fishing pots," said Chief Promise, village leader of Otuegwe and our guide. "This is where we fished and farmed. We have lost our forest. We told Shell of the spill within days, but they did nothing for six months."
That was the Niger delta a few years ago, where, according to Nigerian academics, writers and environment groups, oil companies have acted with such impunity and recklessness that much of the region has been devastated by leaks.
In fact, more oil is spilled from the delta's network of terminals, pipes, pumping stations and oil platforms every year than has been lost in the Gulf of Mexico, the site of a major ecological catastrophe caused by oil that has poured from a leak triggered by the explosion that wrecked BP's Deepwater Horizon rig last month.
That disaster, which claimed the lives of 11 rig workers, has made headlines round the world. By contrast, little information has emerged about the damage inflicted on the Niger delta. Yet the destruction there provides us with a far more accurate picture of the price we have to pay for drilling oil today.
On 1 May this year a ruptured ExxonMobil pipeline in the state of Akwa Ibom spilled more than a million gallons into the delta over seven days before the leak was stopped. Local people demonstrated against the company but say they were attacked by security guards. Community leaders are now demanding $1bn in compensation for the illness and loss of livelihood they suffered. Few expect they will succeed. In the meantime, thick balls of tar are being washed up along the coast.
Within days of the Ibeno spill, thousands of barrels of oil were spilled when the nearby Shell Trans Niger pipeline was attacked by rebels. A few days after that, a large oil slick was found floating on Lake Adibawa in Bayelsa state and another in Ogoniland. "We are faced with incessant oil spills from rusty pipes, some of which are 40 years old," said Bonny Otavie, a Bayelsa MP.
This point was backed by Williams Mkpa, a community leader in Ibeno: "Oil companies do not value our life; they want us to all die. In the past two years, we have experienced 10 oil spills and fishermen can no longer sustain their families. It is not tolerable."
With 606 oilfields, the Niger delta supplies 40% of all the crude the United States imports and is the world capital of oil pollution. Life expectancy in its rural communities, half of which have no access to clean water, has fallen to little more than 40 years over the past two generations. Locals blame the oil that pollutes their land and can scarcely believe the contrast with the steps taken by BP and the US government to try to stop the Gulf oil leak and to protect the Louisiana shoreline from pollution.
"If this Gulf accident had happened in Nigeria, neither the government nor the company would have paid much attention," said the writer Ben Ikari, a member of the Ogoni people. "This kind of spill happens all the time in the delta."
"The oil companies just ignore it. The lawmakers do not care and people must live with pollution daily. The situation is now worse than it was 30 years ago. Nothing is changing. When I see the efforts that are being made in the US I feel a great sense of sadness at the double standards. What they do in the US or in Europe is very different."
"We see frantic efforts being made to stop the spill in the US," said Nnimo Bassey, Nigerian head of Friends of the Earth International. "But in Nigeria, oil companies largely ignore their spills, cover them up and destroy people's livelihood and environments. The Gulf spill can be seen as a metaphor for what is happening daily in the oilfields of Nigeria and other parts of Africa.
"This has gone on for 50 years in Nigeria. People depend completely on the environment for their drinking water and farming and fishing. They are amazed that the president of the US can be making speeches daily, because in Nigeria people there would not hear a whimper," he said.
It is impossible to know how much oil is spilled in the Niger delta each year because the companies and the government keep that secret. However, two major independent investigations over the past four years suggest that as much is spilled at sea, in the swamps and on land every year as has been lost in the Gulf of Mexico so far.
One report, compiled by WWF UK, the World Conservation Union and representatives from the Nigerian federal government and the Nigerian Conservation Foundation, calculated in 2006 that up to 1.5m tons of oil – 50 times the pollution unleashed in the Exxon Valdez tanker disaster in Alaska – has been spilled in the delta over the past half century. Last year Amnesty calculated that the equivalent of at least 9m barrels of oil was spilled and accused the oil companies of a human rights outrage.
According to Nigerian federal government figures, there were more than 7,000 spills between 1970 and 2000, and there are 2,000 official major spillages sites, many going back decades, with thousands of smaller ones still waiting to be cleared up. More than 1,000 spill cases have been filed against Shell alone.
Last month Shell admitted to spilling 14,000 tonnes of oil in 2009. The majority, said the company, was lost through two incidents – one in which the company claims that thieves damaged a wellhead at its Odidi field and another where militants bombed the Trans Escravos pipeline.
Shell, which works in partnership with the Nigerian government in the delta, says that 98% of all its oil spills are caused by vandalism, theft or sabotage by militants and only a minimal amount by deteriorating infrastructure. "We had 132 spills last year, as against 175 on average. Safety valves were vandalised; one pipe had 300 illegal taps. We found five explosive devices on one. Sometimes communities do not give us access to clean up the pollution because they can make more money from compensation," said a spokesman.
"We have a full-time oil spill response team. Last year we replaced 197 miles of pipeline and are using every known way to clean up pollution, including microbes. We are committed to cleaning up any spill as fast as possible as soon as and for whatever reason they occur."
These claims are hotly disputed by communities and environmental watchdog groups. They mostly blame the companies' vast network of rusting pipes and storage tanks, corroding pipelines, semi-derelict pumping stations and old wellheads, as well as tankers and vessels cleaning out tanks.
The scale of the pollution is mind-boggling. The government's national oil spill detection and response agency (Nosdra) says that between 1976 and 1996 alone, more than 2.4m barrels contaminated the environment. "Oil spills and the dumping of oil into waterways has been extensive, often poisoning drinking water and destroying vegetation. These incidents have become common due to the lack of laws and enforcement measures within the existing political regime," said a spokesman for Nosdra.
The sense of outrage is widespread. "There are more than 300 spills, major and minor, a year," said Bassey. "It happens all the year round. The whole environment is devastated. The latest revelations highlight the massive difference in the response to oil spills. In Nigeria, both companies and government have come to treat an extraordinary level of oil spills as the norm."
A spokesman for the Stakeholder Democracy Network in Lagos, which works to empower those in communities affected by the oil companies' activities, said: "The response to the spill in the United States should serve as a stiff reminder as to how far spill management in Nigeria has drifted from standards across the world."
Other voices of protest point out that the world has overlooked the scale of the environmental impact. Activist Ben Amunwa, of the London-based oil watch group Platform, said: "Deepwater Horizon may have exceed Exxon Valdez, but within a few years in Nigeria offshore spills from four locations dwarfed the scale of the Exxon Valdez disaster many times over. Estimates put spill volumes in the Niger delta among the worst on the planet, but they do not include the crude oil from waste water and gas flares. Companies such as Shell continue to avoid independent monitoring and keep key data secret."
Worse may be to come. One industry insider, who asked not to be named, said: "Major spills are likely to increase in the coming years as the industry strives to extract oil from increasingly remote and difficult terrains. Future supplies will be offshore, deeper and harder to work. When things go wrong, it will be harder to respond."
Judith Kimerling, a professor of law and policy at the City University of New York and author of Amazon Crude, a book about oil development in Ecuador, said: "Spills, leaks and deliberate discharges are happening in oilfields all over the world and very few people seem to care."
There is an overwhelming sense that the big oil companies act as if they are beyond the law. Bassey said: "What we conclude from the Gulf of Mexico pollution incident is that the oil companies are out of control.
"It is clear that BP has been blocking progressive legislation, both in the US and here. In Nigeria, they have been living above the law. They are now clearly a danger to the planet. The dangers of this happening again and again are high. They must be taken to the international court of justice."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ma ... elta-shell
bugman's niger post
bugman your niger delta post is so true.
too bad i can discuss this further due to who i work for (PS Not BP) ;>.>
too bad i can discuss this further due to who i work for (PS Not BP) ;>.>
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BarryK
- Puppy Master
- Posts: 9392
- Joined: Mon 09 May 2005, 09:23
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
- Contact:
Guys,
It's an interesting thought, looking at the USA and all that goes on there, from outside, here in Australia, we have a vantage point that you might not have from within.
I could ramble on about that, weapons of mass destruction and so on, but sticking with this latest crisis, just recently we have had documentaries, news stories and interviews on the current oil spill, that highlight some interesting things...
Paramount is BP's disregard for safety. They have by far the worst record of any oil company, and they have been fined many times in the US. There was a recent documentary about a BP plant in the US where BP was fined a huge amount -- I don't recall exactly, about 60 million dollars I think -- but BP just paid the fine and did nothing to rectify the violations. That's what they do, just pay the fines as they are small compared to their profits.
Just last week there was an independent oil expert who was interviewed on TV here, and he explained the safety precautions that were in place before the disaster took place. There was a last-resort measure, a giant clamp, that would squeeze the pipe together -- this was in place, but in testing it didn't work properly, yet BP ignored that and went ahead anyway.
Then, when the oil leak occurred, they tried to use the clamp and it didn't operate.
This expert was also involved in oil operations off Brazil, and he stated that they do take safety seriously and had tested and ensured that their last-resort pipe clamp actually did work. he stated that their safety standard was far higher than BPs.
So, if BP had followed safety standards and ensured their clamp was functional, then the disaster would have been avoided.
What picture does all of this paint? Greed, greed, greed. You are paying the price.
It's an interesting thought, looking at the USA and all that goes on there, from outside, here in Australia, we have a vantage point that you might not have from within.
I could ramble on about that, weapons of mass destruction and so on, but sticking with this latest crisis, just recently we have had documentaries, news stories and interviews on the current oil spill, that highlight some interesting things...
Paramount is BP's disregard for safety. They have by far the worst record of any oil company, and they have been fined many times in the US. There was a recent documentary about a BP plant in the US where BP was fined a huge amount -- I don't recall exactly, about 60 million dollars I think -- but BP just paid the fine and did nothing to rectify the violations. That's what they do, just pay the fines as they are small compared to their profits.
Just last week there was an independent oil expert who was interviewed on TV here, and he explained the safety precautions that were in place before the disaster took place. There was a last-resort measure, a giant clamp, that would squeeze the pipe together -- this was in place, but in testing it didn't work properly, yet BP ignored that and went ahead anyway.
Then, when the oil leak occurred, they tried to use the clamp and it didn't operate.
This expert was also involved in oil operations off Brazil, and he stated that they do take safety seriously and had tested and ensured that their last-resort pipe clamp actually did work. he stated that their safety standard was far higher than BPs.
So, if BP had followed safety standards and ensured their clamp was functional, then the disaster would have been avoided.
What picture does all of this paint? Greed, greed, greed. You are paying the price.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]
You must mean the famous "blowout preventer" that didn't. 
IIRC, there was a big blowout in the East Timor Sea a year or two ago. In that case the "blowout preventer" obviously didn't, also.
A few weeks ago I read an article about the oil disaster that contained a short paragraph which stated that the U.S.' Materials Management Service (MMS) had actually tested a few blowout preventers, and most of them failed. Even more interesting was the cryptic statement that only a few manufacturers would permit the MMS to test their blowout preventers. No more info was given.
IIRC, there was a big blowout in the East Timor Sea a year or two ago. In that case the "blowout preventer" obviously didn't, also.A few weeks ago I read an article about the oil disaster that contained a short paragraph which stated that the U.S.' Materials Management Service (MMS) had actually tested a few blowout preventers, and most of them failed. Even more interesting was the cryptic statement that only a few manufacturers would permit the MMS to test their blowout preventers. No more info was given.
This is a bit off topic but I still remember this very well. When I worked for Greenpeace this incident was very much the topic of conversation:
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2005/s1401612.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2005/s1401612.htm
Former French PM criticises Rainbow Warrior bombing
PM - Monday, 27 June , 2005 18:27:38
Reporter: Gillian Bradford
PETER CAVE: Nearly 20 years after the bombing of the Greenpeace boat, Rainbow Warrior, a former French prime minister has admitted the operation was a shambles.
Laurent Fabius has told a New Zealand documentary team it was the country's defence minister who ordered the bombing and then lied about his involvement.
Greenpeace photographer Fernando Pereira died in the bombing in Auckland Harbour.
Two French secret service agents spent a brief time in jail for manslaughter but those further up the chain have never been brought to justice.
New Zealand Correspondent Gillian Bradford reports.
GILLIAN BRADFORD: In the days before many people in this corner of the world thought about terrorism, the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior sent a country into shock.
Even those around New Zealand's cabinet table like former deputy prime minister Geoffrey Palmer could barely comprehend what the French had done.
GEOFFREY PALMER: It was an unbelievable act and it was of course, one of the dumbest things that the French Government has ever done.
This was the most serious violation of New Zealand's territorial sovereignty that it has ever suffered and it was an act of state sponsored terrorism. It was an act of war.
GILLIAN BRADFORD: In the mid-1980s French nuclear testing was in full swing in the Pacific and the environmental movement was mobilising to stop them.
The Greenpeace vessel Rainbow Warrior sat docked in Auckland Harbour. Her crew had made many voyages to French testing sites and in mid-1985 were preparing to sail to Mururoa Atoll.
Steve Sawyer was part of the crew and is now the Worldwide Director of Greenpeace.
STEVE SAWYER: The prime objective really was to occupy the French, to make it difficult for them and to make them… to just annoy the hell out of them.
GILLIAN BRADFORD: But Greenpeace had become a bigger irritant for the French than it had realised. While the crew prepared for the voyage, French navy divers were placing two bombs under the boat. The French have maintained they didn't intend to kill anyone but just wanted to make the boat unsalvageable.
Steve Sawyer:
STEVE SAWYER: I think the idea was to hit Greenpeace, to hit Greenpeace hard, hopefully in their minds hard enough so that we wouldn't come back.
They make a great show about how it was not designed to cause any loss of life, which is total rubbish. I mean, if… we're very lucky that a lot more people weren't killed.
GILLIAN BRADFORD: Initially the French Government denied all involvement in the bombing. But its agents in new Zealand left a trail of evidence, and it was left to prime minister Laurent Fabius to admit state involvement.
Nearly 20 years after the bombing he's told New Zealand television the secret service was just following orders.
LAURENT FABIUS: It was a mess from the beginning to the end and France has to apologise for that and France did.
GILLIAN BRADFORD: The former prime minister says his defence minister ordered the bombing, then tried to cover it up, and even denied it to him and French president Mitterrand.
LAURENT FABIUS: We were three of us, the minister, president Mitterrand and myself. And he asked the minister, 'But can you say to the prime minister if we are in this business or not?' And the minister says, 'No!' It's only after a few weeks the true things appear. Then I came to the TV and said, 'Well, French people have done it and therefore we have to confess it.'
GILLIAN BRADFORD: Two French secret service agents were caught in Auckland and convicted of manslaughter. But France pressured New Zealand to move them to a Pacific atoll to serve their time and once they got there France brought them home, much to New Zealand's disgust.
With the 20th anniversary of the bombing just two weeks away, the event still looms large in New Zealand.
If the Americans wonder why New Zealand still clings to its anti-nuclear policy the answer lies at the bottom of the ocean in a boat called the Rainbow Warrior.
This is Gillian Bradford in Auckland, for PM.
Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise.
Surangama Sutra
Surangama Sutra
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bugman
i always thought it was because they are saneIf the Americans wonder why New Zealand still clings to its anti-nuclear policy the answer lies at the bottom of the ocean in a boat called the Rainbow Warrior.
i expect nuclear power is going to come back in a big way here, as oil spills and coal mining deaths allow us to forget chernobyl and three mile island
and as amerikans cannot live without television and out-of-season fruit
i should talk, there is no in-season fruit in montana
another three-headed lizard? booooooring . . .
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aarf
let me guess they used montana to test a-bombs and thats why no fruit grows there? was in a place that had minus 20 deg. Celsius in winter. snow on the ground for 3 months and they could grow apples among other stone fruits and veg..bugman wrote:
and as amerikans cannot live without television and out-of-season fruit
i should talk, there is no in-season fruit in montana
another three-headed lizard? booooooring . . .
you cant escape the internet :
http://www.visitmt.com/experiences/food_and_beverage/And maybe a piece of seasonal huckleberry pie.
http://www.visitmt.com/experiences/food ... s_markets/Montana is a virtual barnyard - with vineyards,
FLATHEAD FARMS AND FRESH FOOD TOUR
In northwest Montana's fertile Flathead Valley, many farms still produce fresh vegetables, fruits, flowers, grains, meats and dairy in a sustainable fashion.
http://www.visitmt.com/experiences/food ... agtour.htm
Last edited by aarf on Fri 04 Jun 2010, 16:14, edited 2 times in total.
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bugman
it's a joke, an exaggerationaarf wrote:let me guess they used montana to test a-bombs and thats why no fruit grows there?
besides it gets to -50 here in the winter, and the first guaranteed frost-free day is usually june 1st
that said, some fruit does grow, although last year my squash was all killed by an early freeze [first week of october?]
i have seen tomatoes and peppers [though mine seem to mostly be eaten by grasshoppers] and squashes, and of course, lots of berries and berry-like fruits
i suppose apples are possible, though i'm not aware of any [will ask]
[montana, where the white-tailed deer is considered a fruit]
Give it another couple of weeks and I am going to take a swim down there in the hope of oiling my aging aching joints 
Maybe Florida could sell the whole thing as a health spa..............
Humble pie........ I am ashamed of my country's flagship company. Some of us Britishers are not so cavalier. We still run people over politely........
Maybe Florida could sell the whole thing as a health spa..............
Humble pie........ I am ashamed of my country's flagship company. Some of us Britishers are not so cavalier. We still run people over politely........
Spup Frugal HD and USB
Root forever!
Root forever!
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aarf
montana: the brochures make it sound like a nice peaceful homely quiet place. dont know why you are always saying derogatory things about it.
-50 is well out of the comfort range though.
-50 is well out of the comfort range though.
http://www.visitmt.com/categories/morei ... 2&siteid=1Mountain View Orchards
We at Mountain View Orchards strive to provide the very best in quality of apples and cider available in Western Montana.
Last edited by aarf on Fri 04 Jun 2010, 17:14, edited 2 times in total.
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aarf
you forget the main news out of the UK this week?DaveS wrote: Some of us Britishers are not so cavalier. We still run people over politely........
its like when you sleep with someone you catch their lice. UK has been in bed with the USA for far too long and is catching its social ills.
Last edited by aarf on Fri 04 Jun 2010, 17:08, edited 2 times in total.
I fear so.............aarf wrote:you forget the [url=http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... ctims.html]main news out of the UK this week[/url}? its like when you sleep with someone you catch their lice. UK has been in bed with the USA for far too long and is catching its social ills.DaveS wrote: Some of us Britishers are not so cavalier. We still run people over politely........
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bugman
i don't live in that part of montanaaarf wrote:montana: the brochures make it sound like a nice peaceful homely quiet place. dont know why you are always saying derogatory things about it.
it's a big state, and the west and east are vastly different
i'd say 'think north dakota' except all of their literature is about the eastern half of the state
in between western montana and eastern north dakota is a desert, hot in the summer, cold in the winter, dry and windy year round
Very true,....saw our Gov. on TV this morning saying Florida beaches will be seeing that stuff soon. I'm a bit inland from the coast (haven't even SEEN a Florida beach in about 3 years now)....but it will be affecting most everything here. (Tourists bring their $$$...and the economy suffers when they don't). Our beautiful wildlife and nature reserves ....(hate to even THINK about that).bugman wrote:well, gulf coasters will soon have free oil just washing up on the beach for the taking, and she thinks alaskans should get the same good deal