Puppy 4.4 'Woofy'

Message

Lobster · #1 Post by **Lobster** » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 06:59

Barry Kauler: "after 4.3 is released, we have to discuss who will coordinate 4.4. I would prefer to get back onto Woof core development and some other things. I was wondering, perhaps our old "community edition" model should be looked at again."

Wiki page started
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy44

Objectives

* Built from Woof
* Woof built Upup CE, Dpup CE and Tpup CE
* Patches, upgrades and tests from feedback of 4.3 release
* Programs updated, improved, added
* Software packages added to Puppy repository
* New drivers compiled and increased
* Localization
* 64 bit support
* On-the-fly mounting of SFS's
* Upgrade ALSA to 1.0.21a
* Upgrade X.Org to 7.4 (or 7.5)
* Transmission added
* AdBlock Plus or MonkeyMenu in Seamonkey added

#2 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 08:00

linuxcbon if you want to coordinate 4.4, ummmmm why didn't you help in 4.2? I don't remember you helping much in that build, If anything I would like to a seasoned user become coordinator. There is so much work in building a release, not just packages, but knowing how to reduce them, keeping libs at min, etc
you mentioned at Barry's Blog "- for configure compiling, what do you think of these settings : --prefix=/usr --host=i386-linux --enable-shared "
well thats close, but usually always check first ./configure --help
That usually will give you the options, I usually use --enable-strip also
But almost every application is different, There is no general compile line that works for everything. Firefox compile line is about 7 lines long, VLC/seamonkey can be a lot longer. Basically it all comes with experience. If you search Barry's blog he has some good examples, Plus I've posted some on the forum like for ffmpeg.
Really if you really want to be a coordinator it might be best to leave the packages to seasoned packagers, like myself,coolpup,aragon,muggins,pizzasgood and just coordinate it, put it together, Say "its in !!!" "its out!!!" build it and release it

ttuuxxx

dejan555 · #3 Post by **dejan555** » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 08:25

There will be 4.4? I thought 4.3 will be last in 4.x series.

#4 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 09:12

well dejan555 I also figured that was it until I just read today at Barry's Blog that he wants to keep it going

well I guess it is the old stable version, and gives Barry sometime to work on woof

Thats where he wants to be
ttuuxxx

linuxcbon · #5 Post by **linuxcbon** » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 09:24

ttuuxxx I didnt help much in 4.2 because my pc was broken, plus had personal problems. Now I have more time and a working pc. For compilation options, I try to keep it short but sometimes it's not possible.

#6 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 18:34

linuxcbon wrote:ttuuxxx I didnt help much in 4.2 because my pc was broken, plus had personal problems. Now I have more time and a working pc. For compilation options, I try to keep it short but sometimes it's not possible.

Hi linuxcbon when it comes to 4.4 and if your the coordinator, I'll be there to lend a hand and you'll have nothing to worry about, 4.2 I must of made well over 50+ packages, icewm was like 20 alone, lol man did I ever get that small for what you got in the end compared to other releases of icewm in the past, plus out of all those packages really only 2 weren't test by users and was the biggest pain in the butt ever, lol
The future coordinator job should be to test 100% all options of all submitted packages or a team of individuals willing to do the test. That way if software providers change their defaults like abiword then we'll know way in advance and be able to submit alternatives. Would save a lot of stress.
ttuuxxx

Bert · #7 Post by **Bert** » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 20:38

Dear all,

Until yesterday, Puppy 4.3 was to be the very last of the 4.xx series.
One thing I like about Puppy and Barry is the sudden surprises. But I simply cannot understand the need for a 4.4 release.

Okay, it gives the community something to chew upon, but what's the point, now that (Karmic) 5.0 is so very near? Of course, it will be possible to embellish 4.3, but aren't we wasting our time? Couldn't these great and very talented Puppy developers be doing something far more meaningful? (I confess, I'm a layman, but I am a longtime Puppy user, still have some 0.xx cd's lying around..)

I can only guess Lobster started this new topic to collect ideas for a possible 4.4 release. So if this thread is also about wish lists, here's mine:

1. a simple, standardized, unified localization system

2. Implementing on-the-fly- SFS as a flexible, standard Puppy way of doing things ( think older hardware and modern environmentally friendly low power boxes) Choicepup sets the example here.

What do you think?

Best regards,

Lobster · #8 Post by **Lobster** » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 21:17

Puppy 4.4 may well be built from Woof

Programs that are regularly updated and improved can be added.

The software packages included and compiled can be increased

dejan555 · #9 Post by **dejan555** » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 21:19

Yes! On the fly mounting of SFS's should be in all further puppy releases, no reboot, no hassle and then puppy will be ultra modular and almost perfect OS!

James C · #10 Post by **James C** » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 22:17

One great thing about Puppy and the community......it never gets boring.

Bert · #11 Post by **Bert** » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 00:08

Lobster, as much as i love you and your gentle Buddhist approach, your latest post in this thread is not very helpful or meaningful:

"Puppy 4.4 may well be built from Woof"
Ah, yes, thanks for reminding us

"programs that are regularly updated and improved can be added"
Wow, aren't we lucky?

"The software packages included and compiled can be increased"
Now, that's a great idea...

You didn't even read what I was saying:

1. Localization
2. On-the-fly mounting of SFS's

What worries me most is you didn't even come up with a good reason to start the 4.4CE

James C · #12 Post by **James C** » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 00:45

Why a Puppy 4.4?

Why not. Puppy 5 may be a bit down the road......I assume Barry K has an idea of when it will be possible.looks like there is still a lot of work to do there.

Since it is Barry K's idea for a 4.4, that is good enough for me.

DaveS · #13 Post by **DaveS** » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 05:38

Why 4.4? Its simple really, 4.3 is a quantum leap improvement over 4.2, speed, rendering, and more up to date apps. The world of computing never stays still. Hopefully, 4.4 will show similar improvements over 4.3.
BTW, when 4.3 Final is released, will that become the 'Official' Puppy distro?

tronkel · #14 Post by **tronkel** » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 06:51

Barry says he is suffering from burn-out and needs a break for a bit.
Yes, no wonder he has made a very nice and solid job of 425 beta3. It must have been very hard going at times. This can't have far to go until final.

I had reason to use the Woof build system yesterday to build a version that would work with MU's ATI-Catalyst dotpet. The current default kernel k2.6.30.5 will not run this properly.There is a rich choice of 4 kernels offered by the Woof build system, so I built a 425Beta3 that uses the k2.6.29.6 kernel.

The build went fine (and worked fine with the ATI-Catalyst dotpet), apart from one very minor glitch with a missing ndiswrapper package that Woof couldn't find in the repo. This did not stop the build though. The result was a very fast build of 425 (fast as in performance and also the short time it took to build it). I'd recommend doing this if you seem to have problems with the current default kernel.

LOL, I needn't have bothered! Five minutes after I had finished the build I noticed MU had just submitted an ATI-Catalyst that now works with k2.6.30.5 . I really should check the forum more often.

But what the experience of doing this build did illustrate, is that this version of Puppy will make a terrific base for a CE version or derivative. If the community does undertake this task, Barry can have his well-earned break.

Ideas for inclusion?

Since KDE4 now seems to be stable, a KDE version looks like a nice idea. Since this version of Puppy has a solid selection of apps, a lot of the the native KDE stuff could be left out, maybe leaving the plasmoids in. K3b for example would not be a must-have here, since Puppy already has good burning software. Some heavy customisation of KDE4 in order to "puppyfy" the look and feel would be needed. It wouldn't want to look like a standard KDE4 such as found in say, OpenSuse or Kubuntu - more towards the MEPIS idea of using KDE, but not giving it an unmistakable KDE4 look. Size of the KDE4 contribution should be kept to a bare minimum. It's the KDE4 design that's relevant here for its deployment in a Puppy CE.

A version of the google-gadgets package as found in Debian and Ubuntu could also be put to use here. That would make a nice addition to the KDE plasmoid widgets.

Openoffice 3.1.1 or even Koffice would be possibles here as well.

I doubt if I could co-ordinate such a CE, but would help out if required.

tronkel · #15 Post by **tronkel** » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 07:02

Forgot to mention in the last post - Ubuntu Karmic is due out on Oct 29th 2009, so would be nice if Puppy had something ready and prepared to celebrate this event!

A Karmic based Woof version of Puppy and/or a Puppy CE version would help Canonical along a bundle! Barry may still be resting up though, so don't know if it would be feasible to build a Karmic Woof in time for this.

Lobster · #16 Post by **Lobster** » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 07:46

KDE4?

Tronkel that ain't puppy

Surely too big?

With 4.2 'Deep Thought'
Warren tried to do nothing more than a natural upgrade
and improvement of 4.12
It ended up a very stable, good looking edition
with a lot of work from Ttuuxxx and others
that grew quite organically from initial simple aims.

Many of these improvements were added to 4.3
What we need is someone to co-ordinate that we can all get behind.

A lot of people have suggested 'gray'. Available?

#17 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 08:41

Hi tronkel A kde4 version sounds nice but, I think our QT in version 4 is too old to use and would have to be upgraded. There's only a couple of people who have compiled QT, the working directory is around 2gigs now,

Once someone compiles QT and supplies the Dev's for the devx etc then kde could be possible, But really I think KDE should be a project where a group of people work at it on another thread due to the masses of programs, bugs etc, once that would be built, then the updates could be added to the 4.4 build, I'm sure that some parts of 4 series would have to be upgraded to meet the build requirements.
ttuuxxx

tronkel · #18 Post by **tronkel** » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 09:06

OK that's a good point Ttuuxxx.

An SFS similar to what Kirk once built for KDE3 is maybe a better idea therefore here.

As I remember, Kirk's sfs was a vastly cut-down version and was also fast.

When people think of KDE they tend to think big and slow, (just like Windows?). KDE4 has undergone a serious amount of development effort over the last 2 years or so. Previously it would have been out of the question for use in Puppy. During this time Puppy itself is now unrecognisable from what it was then - thanks to the gigantic development effort put in by Barry and the others involved during that period.

Wouldn't like to think therefore, that Puppy is somehow missing out on this latest push with KDE4.

KDE4 is well-liked by many Linux users - and Puppy is Linux after all.

The trick here with KDE4 would be to customise and shrink the size so that it suited Puppy's way of doing things.

LOL, Ttuuxxx is the one with the sharp scissors plus the graphics know-how here. Hint Hint!

raffy · #19 Post by **raffy** » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 09:30

Well, kirk has been turning up Fatdog, and there is a discussion here of on-the-fly mounting/unmounting of sfs.

Kirk could well take a shot at 4.4CE with Fatdog.

Gray's work on boxpup is also nice, and it will be interesting if they could be a team to lead 4.4CE.

BTW, take note that the name is gray.

01micko · #20 Post by **01micko** » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 13:40

ok then 440...

Is it to be a woof normal type Puppy, no bloat, or a CE with extras?

Ahhh yes ... CE.... hmmmm.

IMO normal, stick to 100MB. Puplets will follow.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Puppy 4.4 'Woofy'

Puppy 4.4 'Woofy'

kirk