Frugal Install Vs. Full Install - Which to use where?

Message

dr_willis · #1 Post by **dr_willis** » Wed 13 May 2009, 12:15

I often see in the IRC room the beginners some how think a Frugal install is
some how 'crippled, or limited, or other wise less useable' then a Full install.

Perhaps its just because of the terms 'Frugal' and 'Full', I cant think of better terms however.

My experience with the differacnes are minimal, i always do 'Frugal' installs.
Can anyone give some advice on when a Full install is a better way to go.

Thanks.

mikeb · #2 Post by **mikeb** » Wed 13 May 2009, 18:25

full install good when...

* limited ram.....eg 2.12 uses 45mb plus pup_xxx.sfs at boot..full uses 17mb
* quick hard drive....for slow media...old drive/flash frugal will win at speed IF there is plenty of ram.
* straightforward file system...no layer oddities though aufs is better than unionfs in that respect the layer system can be confusing...if puppy the only system or has a dedicated partition then why not install like windows/big distros do.
* faster boot/shutdown.
* no problems with running out of pup_save space

just my experience of course....now if yer want 10 operating systems on one partition.......

mike

tlcstat · #3 Post by **tlcstat** » Wed 13 May 2009, 19:30

Greetings,
As a newbie I personally found a full install as limited because it won't load the SFS packages at startup. In other words with the Frugal install you can load Openoffice, C++ and other packages at boot without actually installing the software. Also you can update the frugal install easier when a upgrade is released.

Seems to me that the full install runs faster and you won't have a limited save space. You will have a problem with an upgrade though.

The neat thing about puppy is that you can do a full install on any partition and then also do a frugal install on that same partition. That way you can play with the plus and minus of both, You would put the frugal install in a sub directory.

I would use the installer to put grub on the mbr. The only thing you will have to do with your grub menu if you install both is duplicate full install menu and then edit the second entry to add the sub dir where the frugal install is located and also change the title for that entry.

In addition you can have as many frugal installs as you want. Just put them in separate sub dirs. This way you can try out some of the other puplets floating around. They are very different. Add each in your grub menu as a separate item.

Good thing is, if you mess up your menu, you can boot the cd and edit the grub menu directly on the hd partition.

I would personally use the 4.12 version since it has good driver support and a lot of the bugs removed. Grub also works very good with the new version. I personally install on a ext3 partition but you can put it on Ntfs or any other available. The frugal install won't mess with you other installations.

Have fun and good luck, at least you are coming from a linux platform so you have some experience.

tlcstat

mikeb · #4 Post by **mikeb** » Wed 13 May 2009, 20:08

The neat thing about puppy is that you can do a full install on any partition and then also do a frugal install on that same partition. That way you can play with the plus and minus of both, You would put the frugal install in a sub directory.

beware that if you run this setup before the pup_save is created the frugal will use your full install as the pup_save...good for a laugh

...delete the initrd folder created and your full install might just work ok again

mike

tlcstat · #5 Post by **tlcstat** » Wed 13 May 2009, 21:51

Greetings,
Yes, thanks for that! I did copy my save file over to the Frugal dir. Since we have this going I might as well say for the benefit of the original poster that the save file for the different derivatives [puplets] are not necessarily compatible. When I had to make a switch to Fatdog in order to get the support I needed for my new computer I had to start out with a new save file. This was per Fatdog's instructions.

If the save file is in the same dir as the frugal install in will be loaded automatically. Else the frugal install may indeed use the full install data which could actually cause problems especially if different derivitives are used.
tlcstat

rjbrewer · #6 Post by **rjbrewer** » Wed 13 May 2009, 22:28

tlcstat wrote:

In addition you can have as many frugal installs as you want. Just put them in separate sub dirs. This way you can try out some of the other puplets floating around. They are very different. Add each in your grub menu as a separate item.

That's true; but you can try lots of puplets by making many small
partitions with full installs.....and it's fun watching the little bar
go back and forth in Gparted.

mikeb · #7 Post by **mikeb** » Thu 14 May 2009, 02:00

and it's fun watching the little bar
go back and forth in Gparted.

I like all the coloured boxes

mike (aged 5 and 3 quarters)

Bruce B · #8 Post by **Bruce B** » Thu 14 May 2009, 06:24

Preponderance

The preponderance of Puppy users use Frugal.

I expect the preponderance of replies would be Frugal is best.

Bruce B · #9 Post by **Bruce B** » Thu 14 May 2009, 06:29

tlcstat wrote: In addition you can have as many frugal installs as you want.
Just put them in separate sub dirs. This way you can try out
some of the other puplets floating around. They are very
different. Add each in your grub menu as a separate
item.

If this is a factor, I ask, how many full installs can one have?

Hint: For anyone counting by hand, one might need more
than fingers and toes before the max is reached.

Bruce B · #10 Post by **Bruce B** » Thu 14 May 2009, 06:47

mikeb wrote: beware that if you run this setup before the pup_save is
created the frugal will use your full install as the
pup_save...good for a laugh :D ...delete the initrd folder
created and your full install might just work ok again

mike

Past

I ran into something a long time ago. I posted about it. It
caught Barry's attention and I tried to duplicate it for him,
but without success.

In my case the reason I caught it, was, as I recall, because
the 'Frugal' was using the Full /etc settings. But as said, I
couldn't duplicate or therefore couldn't verify it.

Present

Puppy CDs are categorized by me as 'not to be trusted',
The reason why is, a human being could actually forget he
left one in the tray. Puppy has no manners at all when it
comes to finding some pup_save file and forcibly modifying
it.

Frugal installations, by me are all manual procedures.
Almost without exception off a mounted .iso file.

The pup_save file is made before the booting
instructions are written.

Gorilla no baka · #11 Post by **Gorilla no baka** » Thu 14 May 2009, 08:51

mikeb wrote:full install good when...

* limited ram.....eg 2.12 uses 45mb plus pup_xxx.sfs at boot..full uses 17mb
* quick hard drive....for slow media...old drive/flash frugal will win at speed IF there is plenty of ram.
* straightforward file system...no layer oddities though aufs is better than unionfs in that respect the layer system can be confusing...if puppy the only system or has a dedicated partition then why not install like windows/big distros do.
* faster boot/shutdown.
* no problems with running out of pup_save space

just my experience of course....now if yer want 10 operating systems on one partition.......

mike

Ditto here too

I always do Full installs.They are the best.

mikeb · #12 Post by **mikeb** » Thu 14 May 2009, 12:40

Puppy CDs are categorized by me as 'not to be trusted',
The reason why is, a human being could actually forget he
left one in the tray. Puppy has no manners at all when it
comes to finding some pup_save file and forcibly modifying
it.

It was a hard drive frugal install...I checked the init script and pfix=ram (which I sensibly but fruitlessly used for safety) is ignored in the scenerio where there is a full install present...I suggested checking for an /initrd folder in the puppy 4.12 bugs section here before mounting the partition as a pup_save.

mike

tlcstat · #13 Post by **tlcstat** » Thu 14 May 2009, 21:32

Greetings,
This is my usb grub menu. I turned off usb boot in the cmos. I also charge my mp3 from the usb and it is seen by the bios as a drive. This way I don't have to keep unplugging everything to boot grub.

# Linux bootable partition on USB
title Linux USB sdc1
root (hd1,0)
kernel /Fatpuppy112/vmlinuz root=/dev/sdc1 pmedia=usbflash psubdir=Fatpuppy112 nosmp
initrd /Fatpuppy112/initrd.gz

This menu loads a frugal installation in subdir Fatpuppy112 on USB Pendrive. There has to be a empty script file called "USBFLASH" in the dir where the installation is located. The menu presumes that there is only one hard drive which makes the usb = hd1. If you have more than one hard drive you will have to change this. usb designation. I have found this to be more convenient than making the pendrive bootable. Functionally its no different than having a frugal directory on the Windows drive. I appreciate the original poster for this great idea.
tlcstat

smokey01 · #14 Post by **smokey01** » Fri 26 Jun 2009, 22:19

What is the best method to use when upgrading a full install from 4.2 to 4.2.1.

I don't want to lose any data or the setup and additional software I currently have installed. It has taken too long to get it the way I like it.

rjbrewer · #15 Post by **rjbrewer** » Sat 27 Jun 2009, 01:41

smokey 01;

I think 4.2.1 is basically 4.2 with some patches and bug fixes.

Shouldn't be any need to "upgrade"; just use any of the
patches you like.

smokey01 · #16 Post by **smokey01** » Sat 27 Jun 2009, 02:51

rjbrewer wrote:smokey 01;

I think 4.2.1 is basically 4.2 with some patches and bug fixes.

Shouldn't be any need to "upgrade"; just use any of the
patches you like.

I agree 4.2.1 is only a bug fix version. The trouble is CUPS for example has regressed to an earlier version. How do I delete the old CUPS prior to installing the new.

Do you know if there is a Delta file to perform this process?

I am also looking for the upgrade instructions so when 5.0 is released I can do it without loosing my current data and setup.

By the way, where are the patches from 4.2 to 4.2.1?

Thanks

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

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Frugal Install Vs. Full Install - Which to use where?

Frugal Install Vs. Full Install - Which to use where?